I'm not a fan of Brittany Spears, but I did go through a horrible hell with depression and concomitants for about 20 years, starting in my mid-teens.
In my experience, "intervention" was never helpful. Mostly because the people involved didn't really care what I was experiencing; they simply wanted me to "act normal" again.
When I made a suicide attempt at age 21, NO ONE ASKED WHY. That was mind-blowing to me. Doctors and counselors and friends and family...no one seemed the least bit curious about what drove me to want to die.
It wasn't until I was in my mid-20s that I got real help...from "positive mental attitude" speakers who--ironically--didn't care much about me on a personal level, but who cared a great deal about how I, personally, could cope with the *reality* of what I was feeling and experiencing. It was they who helped me come to terms with the fact that no one but me cared about what was going on inside me, and that spending so much energy trying to get other people to care was a recipe for nothing but more and more misery. They gave me permission to feel whatever I chose to feel *for myself.*
I'm still kind of angry about the attitudes that everyone I cared about had toward my suffering. But I also recognize that they themselves may not have had the emotional wherewithal to react appropriately. The medical/psychological people, however, do not get a pass.
So while I don't care much personally about Brittany Spears, I do some empathy toward what she may have been put through by the people who were "just trying to help."
Thanks for your comment Celia. Simply acknowledging that you’re allowed to feel what you feel and that you’re allowed to help yourself is such an easy lesson that somehow takes so long to learn.
Perhaps it explains many of our journeys to this comment section
I do volunteer work for two suicide-related charities and, initially, thought I wasn't helping anyone as they would tell about their terrible life circumstances which, in most cases, I was powerless to do anything about as were they (usually). Then I found a pattern of many people saying "thank you for listening to me" and also saying that NO ONE else seemed interested in them or how they felt and realized most people just want someone to hear what they have to say. I've found just asking friends and family "how are you feeling these days?" can often get an honest answer vs. the more casual/standard "How are you?" to which everyone says "fine" or "good."
I always look forward to your comments. It sounds to me ( I am not a doctor) that you now have a great handle on who and what you are, ( your self) . In today's world I have observed that such self awareness is not nearly as common as it should be. I talk with family and friends lot about this topic for many reasons but one is that most of us have the ability to know and love ourselves ( and in turn find ways to take care of and improve our selves ) if we are aware and make the effort. Glad you have found meaning and purpose in your life.
I've been there too and way more recently. The inconvenience of a suffering family member really wears on our loved ones. Glad to hear you're thriving now!
Behavioral approaches are useful tools. But ultimately it took Lexapro to erase the ugly realities of depression (and for me it was instant improvement from the first pill). Even with that, I still have depression, it's just *treated*. Vitamin D helps offset the seasonal element. But it's a defect in my DNA. Knowing that is also helpful: it's not a character flaw; it's a disease.
Been on lexapro off and on since 2013 and became a personal trainer which is my therapy. Never fails to improve my mood. Also taking accountability for my happiness and misery. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
I’m glad you’ve recovered and I’m so sorry you suffered through that. Would you be comfortable sharing the names of some of the positive mental health attitude speakers who helped you?
Hopefully someone chimes in with some helpful books. Thanks for sharing, Celia. For me, forgiving my family was crucial to my mental health. Anytime I spiraled down I remembered “my family did the best they could. At times, their best wasn’t good enough but that just means I need to be stronger and more self reliant”
Wow, it's been over 30 years now, so I'm not sure I even remember anymore. They were local to my area at the time (Oregon), but started out connected to an outfit in...maybe Texas? Googling isn't bringing up anything that looks familiar. Sorry!
Celia, you are one of my absolute favourite commenters here. I am shocked to read that you were suicidal aged 21. You have “ pulled yourself together” admirably. In defence of those who don’t seem to care, we (I include myself) don’t understand the suffering and can’t bear to be around the negativity. I actually feel angry about the terrible, destructive impact that depressed/anxious/ suicidal behaviour of loved ones has on close family and friends. I too wish everyone could just “ act normal” for the sake of those around them.
Just a heads up, Mr. Appel. I am a psychiatrist, and your assertion that Adderall can induce 'careless, erratic behavior' in the mentally stable is in error: generally, if taken orally, it increases focus and energy. And frankly I have never seen, nor ever read a case report, of a women in severe post partum depression who had 'periods of delusions, impulsiveness, paranoia' directly due to the use or abuse of Adderall. Sadly, severe post partum depression in itself can be associated with delusions and paranoia, without the addition of the stimulant.
I’m honestly baffled that you, as a psychiatrist, don’t know this about Adderall. You don’t need case studies to be observant of the world around you, let alone read the “serious side-effects” on the back of the bottle. I know several people who have taken Adderall for ADHD, including members of my own family. Many have reported significant changes to their emotional state, most predominantly “numbness” or an “inability to care.” For some, this is a horrible side-effect that induces a depressive state—that was the case for my brother who begged my mom to get off the stuff. For others, it’s euphoric, suppressing their depression and anxiety symptoms. (And I think it’s this effect that gets some people hooked.)
In all my years I've always assumed that psychiatry, medication, etc. were perfect and that psychiatrists, psychologists, etc. surely knew all the answers about our mental health. I hate having to accept the reality that there are not necessarily answers for every person, and that some things can't be fixed.
A lot of people assume that about all doctors, and it's far from true. Psychiatry is probably a tougher discipline to get right most of the time, less exact and more trial and error needed. I think the first time a parent or older loved one goes into the hospital is a moment of strong disillusionment for many smart people about how poorly our healthcare works. When people say "you need an advocate", i.e. a smart person in your family working on your behalf, that's because healthcare administration is poor. The family usually are the ones telling the doctor who's new that day what the patient has actually gone through in the past 24 hours, what actually happened, etc. Sad that there is virtually no accurate debriefing from well-educated doctor to well-educated doctor when responsibility shifts based on their time schedules, and that no one really cares. If the doc makes a mistake because the system sucked and they weren't well-informed, their take is simply that the system sucks and they can't be blamed, and few try to fix it.
What an odd faith so many of you have in psychiatrists! To me, in is par for the course for a psychiatrist not only to not know common side effects of drugs, but to confidently "correct" those more knowledgeable.
Because you are mental health doctor- I wonder if you know what is being done to curb the incessant use of mental drugs that are prescribed like candy to children in our country. At least half of my kids friends have been on mental medications- HALF. And most do not receive what I would deem REQUIRED mental health counseling. I have a friend who is 35- she was on Reddlin for 15 years as a young teen well into adulthood- she finally took herself off because she realized she couldn’t live her whole life like that. I wonder if the constant prescriptions are actually making mental health outcomes worse?
My own children and some of my grandchildren have been diagnosed with ADHD. I have seen how they function with and without medication. All are intelligent people, but without medication they’re not only disorganized messes, but a couple of the youngest ones have significant problems with behavioral control. It’s not just a focus thing and medication doesn’t cure it. Medication is more like a pair of glasses that allow them to function more consistently on par with their intelligence. They still have to learn other ways to cope with the ADHD. The newer medications are extremely subtle in how they work, better than Ritalin. However, like many psychotropic drugs, some work for an individual better than others and it may take awhile to find the best one. I have seen mental health of my family members IMPROVE with medication when they finally had a fighting chance to be their best selves. ADHD is genetic, which may explain why your friends have more than one child with that brain architecture.
The real question to be asking here is why so many children are having these foundational mental problems nowadays. This was unheard of only a few decades ago, and is not normal.
Its like 1 in 5 adults are on mental meds. Long term maintenance; not crisis intervention.
And the kids? We can’t put garbage in and not expect garbage out. If GMO foods and sugar in everything is safe; why is 70% of the US obese or overweight? And yes it’s genetic for some- but there’s a reason they feed corn to cattle and pigs and chickens- it’s quickly and cheaply fattens them up. They feed this stuff to newborns in formula. Americans would be shocked if they read the labels on food and knew what they all meant. Or know that everything is covered in chemicals in the corporate fields. You can’t wash off a season of pesticides and herbicides in the sink.
The digestive system is known as our “2nd brain”…..perhaps the collective WE need to address the gut and not the brain for the learning issues and demand the FDA and CDC actually do their job or get rid of their useless jobs.
You have a good point here. I'm really health conscious in terms of what I eat but not a fanatic (I'll eat a big piece of pie *IF* it's homemade and I recognize the names of all the ingredients and none of them are dye or preservatives). EVERY food commercial on TV is for some godawful "meal" and each company seems to try to outdo the others into how much sugar, fat and salt they can stuff into whatever they're serving. Deep-fried pizza with stuffed crust and quadruple cheese! And this food is cheap because the government subsidizes corn but not, say, broccoli.
And in France for example (bc that I have first hand knowledge AND their lifestyle is often used to promote universal/socialized medicine) they subsidize locally produced food and are highly protective of family farms and “clean” foods.
Check out Harald Blomberg Rhythmic Movements that Heal, or Sally Goddard, or Sonia Story, ADHD as motor neuron immaturity. Based on what I've read and experienced, I don't think it is genetic, I think it is caused by prenatal/early life stress, and lack of movement. That is what is causing the increase in ADHD (and other learning disabilities). Robert Whitaker's Anatomy of an Epidemic suggests that the psych meds themselves are responsible for the increase in severe mental illness.
It was unheard of because no one talked about it as such. Everyone older than 40 likely remembers the kids in grade school who lashed out, didn't pay attention, caused most of the trouble, etc.
Today the demands on students are much more. There used to be ample recess for students and fewer academics at early ages. Increasing scholastic demands on today’s students necessitates more seat-work in the classroom. Many children no longer walk to school. Physical activity helps a lot of people with ADHD and now students have less of it. I think there was just as much ADHD in the past, but society and education has changed in ways that are less helpful to those with ADHD. Additionally, many people with ADHD have comorbid conditions such as anxiety. My understanding is that it has to do with brain architecture. The reason why some of the behaviors and symptoms are singled out and labeled as “ADHD” is 1) insurance needs a diagnosis and 2) remedies which help people with certain behaviors can be grouped together to help others with similar symptoms and behaviors.
Thank you so much for this comment, Caryl. I have ADHD - as does my mother, who wasn't diagnosed until her sixties - and you said everything I wanted to say.
Let’s not forget how the fields of psychiatry and psychology flip flop all over the place throughout the years. To say there’s some sort of permanent understanding of drugs and treatments courses in this field is laughable. These are the people that support life altering hormone suppression therapy to undeveloped children who on a whim declare they’re a different gender. Not that all of medicine isn’t this way, but this field especially so.
My mother was told I had adhd when I was in 1st grade. My teacher told her I just look out the window when she’s talking and suggested medication (which I’m sure psychiatrists everywhere would have been giddy to prescribe). My mother suggested she was a boring and uninspiring teacher, refused medication, and I went on to have a perfectly successful academic path. I’m now a physician. Not a psychiatrist, thank god.
Dasha, I too am a physician, older than you for sure as ADHD didn’t exist when I was at school. I don’t even remember children behaving badly. Parents and teachers didn’t put up with it. Looking out the window was alright if one was quiet about it 😂.
Absolutely! I fear the direction of the mental fortitude of this country. Every time there is one of these psychopaths that shoots up a public place, the first thing everyone brings up is how the state of the mental health care system is in crisis and we need more services. But I can’t see how that would be true. There’s a therapist hiding behind every blade of grass. There’s online therapy, inpatient, outpatient, meditation, medication, clubs, groups, you name it. It’s the biggest bubble in healthcare I’ve been alive to witness. No other field exploded with on ground accessibility the way the mental healthcare system has, and yet everyone seems to be mentally worse off than they ever have been. Looking at patient charts, the whole of my state suffers from anxiety, depression, and GERD. So clearly the treatment isn’t curing the condition.
A couple of comments. First, psychiatrists and psychologists help a lot of people. I would not be typing this comment if I had not gotten help. Second, therapy and medication can really help people who are struggling. Third, while both professions have made mistakes and are imperfect, there really is no better option. The reason is a lot of mental health problems are hard to fix and it is really hard for humans to change their behavior.
I am glad you did well without medication, and it would not surprise me if some doctors unneeded medication. At the same time, your distain for psychiatrists and psychologists is not helpful nor warranted because they really do help people and they are the best solution we have right now.
I respectfully disagree. My feeling is that what most psychiatrists offer is a slew of pills meant to “cure” mental illnesses that in the past were remedied by upholding familial and friendly connection, exercising, eating well, doing work that is fulfilling and you are proud of. Over time, big pharma, self righteous psychiatrists, and patients who didn’t want to hear the old “eat well and exercise” began to lubricate the market with meds. Like anything in life, health takes a lot of work. Mental health takes a lot of work. Pills are not replacements for that. They may be adjuncts, but far too many physicians have given up altogether on even trying to suggest these medications are tools meant to supplement healthy choices and work, not replace a lifetime of bad habits.
Secondly, there is an expectation, especially in developed western societies, that the default should be constant happiness. When people aren’t happy, they seek therapy, and those therapists insist they are victims or defective or push the agenda that people need help. But we aren’t meant to be happy all the time. The rest of the world population expects to be unhappy and suffer - and if they can find a little bit of joy, they feel fortunate for that. Here it’s backwards.
And lastly, the explosion of therapists, online therapy, the gargantuan growth of this sector, leads me to believe something is wrong. People are “unhappy” and anxious, and there is a long line of others who found a way to capitalize on that, by coddling the masses. In reality, people are much more resilient than that. But you have to put the work in. That’s just one opinion, of course.
I think you have a lot of misconceptions about mental illness, psychiatrists, and therapy. First, eating well, taking care of yourself, spending time with heathy family members, spending time with friends, etc. are good ideas. However, these things cannot fix delusions, trauma, bipolar, panic attacks, moderate or severe depression, eating disorders, etc. In fact, a lot of moderate and severe mental illnesses prevent people from taking care of themselves. They can also make it hard for other people to be around the mentally ill individual. Second, I have never met a psychiatrist who thinks they can cure mental illness by just prescribing medication. They understand the benefits of medication and medication's limitations. That being said, most people who need medication do better on it. Third, a good therapist does not tell a client they are a victim or defective. Just the opposite, they are trying to help their clients be independent and not need a therapist.
I have been in therapy for decades and I can tell you I am not there because I think I should be always happy. I am there because I struggle with a lot of difficult issues which I cannot fix on my own.
Reading your comments, I really don't think you understand mental illness or what mental health professionals do. Mental illness is very hard and unpleasant. No one wants it. Fixing it is very hard and right now, the best a person can do is get help and find something which works for them.
Again, respectfully, thank you for responding and I appreciate your engagement in this conversation.
In one sentence you say therapist are trying to help their clients be independent and not need a therapist, and in the very next one you say you have been in therapy for decades and you have issues you cannot fix on your own.
My point is, maybe you can, and therapy is not the answer. If it were, don’t you think decades of this treatment would have helped? It may feel good or feel like progress, but like you pointed out, the end point of treatment is the obsoletion of its need. If you need it for decades, maybe it has failed to give you the tools you need to deal with this on your own.
The way I see it, mental illness is a spectrum. On the extreme side there are severely mentally ill individuals whose mental issues create a lifetime of debilitation. Disorganized schizophrenics who end up homeless, bipolar people with manic episodes that destroy their entire lives, violent people who destroy the lives of others. And such people have existed since the dawn of time, continue to exist now, and they will never be properly treated because there is no cure. Even management of symptoms is somewhat of a farce in my opinion - these floridly psychotic people may respond to one drug or another after weeks or months of experimentation, but they eventually have another relapse or trigger to psychosis and they’re back where they started. Ultimately, they’re psychotic people who occasionally get some control, but they will always be psychotic people. I think psychiatrists really overestimate their role in these peoples treatment - if temporary control is ever attained, it’s fleeting and the majority of these people don’t live normal productive lives.
On the other end of the spectrum are people with occasional anxiety or depression. Things literally everyone experiences. The therapy and psychiatry culture will encourage these people to get help. It used to be such problems would be solved by talking to family, leaning on your community, church, synagogue, friends, whatever. But therapists will encourage them to replace those connections with therapy. Psychiatrists will immediately offer medication, many with side effects. And the message is always, you need help. So if one could be enabled to deal with these feelings and overcome them, through perseverance, and come out the other side better for it - therapy and psychiatry encourages people not to do that.
The proof to my hypothesis is that we have more therapists and psychiatrists and mental health awareness now than at any other stage in human history. And yet… it seems we also have record mental illness. The treatment is not working. The culture of therapy is facilitating, normalizing, and encouraging the pandemic of mental illness.
I hope this attitude towards mental health doesn’t prevent you from referring your patients with mental health issues to us psychiatrists. I don’t know what your specialty is, but I am pretty sure if I heard it I wouldn’t disparage it. We all need to work to advance our understanding together. Do you really think *any* doctor goes into medicine to gleefully diagnose crippling disease so they can force-medicate it?
Disparaging psychiatry is not to disparage you, of course, so don’t take my comments to heart. No, I don’t think anyone goes into medicine to force medication on people to a hopeless outcome. But, I think a lot of physicians convince themselves they are doing good, when really they are not. To me the litmus test is often that the most difficult thing is usually the most correct. And in psychiatry, isn’t that true? The easiest treatment for depression is for you to prescribe an SSRI or whatever the sexiest new medicine is at the time. The most difficult thing would be to insist that patient eat healthy, exercise regularly, find fulfilling employment, work hard, achieve things. Studies even have shown that regular exercise is an equivalent to antidepressant medication, without all the side effects and risks. So why aren’t you pushing for that, every single time? Because you are convinced that medication is good, and because the latter is easy. It’s the institutional gold standard. But it’s wrong.
I'm not a psychiatrist but I think Spears has untreated bipolar disorder. When she was in the conservatorship (and being forced to take her meds) she was much more stable than we are seeing now.
I can say first hand that I was in a group project with a mentally healthy student that took Adderall to "focus and be productive", and it, indeed, made her careless and erratic. She thought she was being productive, but really, she was so wild that I couldn't even read her notes and she was useless in the group.
This wouldn't show up in a self-reported survey, because she thought she was being studious and productive. I know this is anecdotal, but that doesn't mean it's not true in some cases.
One other thing, psychiatric drugs do not work the same way in each person. The same drug will be amazing for one person and do nothing for another person. You cannot determine if a drug is effective by just looking at a few isolated cases.
Was the Adderall proscribed by a psychiatrist? Was the Adderall taken as proscribed? If someone is mentally health, they would not need Adderall and should not be taking it. Self-medication does not work (i.e. a person cannot decide to just take a psychiatric drug because it leads to harm).
It definitely was not prescribed, but that's the original comment's point, that Adderall doesn't cause mentally healthy people to become erratic (ever). In my friend's case, it definitely did.
The author did suggest that abuse of Adderall combined with underlying issues is epecially problematic. Psychosis seems to be a possible side-effect: https://www.drugs.com/adderall.html
It's not for me to judge whether an autobiography reveals the full truth, but we know that musicians in the USA have often taken many, many drugs in dangerous amounts and combinations.
Perhaps if the parents of other well-known musicians such as Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Kurt Cobain, Jim Morrison, and others had been able to be more involved, those legends would have lived past 27 years old.
The tremendous loss of opportunity, happiness, and health caused by drug abuse in the West cannot be overstated. Our major cities are clogged with the endgame results.
...your assertion that Adderall can induce 'careless, erratic behavior' in the mentally stable is in error: generally, if taken orally, it increases focus and energy."
Well, that's great. How about when Adderall is abused by dosage and frequency as well as the manner of administration (likely snorted) by some one who is mentally unstable?
Your comment completely ignores two factors which can make a critical difference. Which, renders it pointless.
But what I'm to take away from your final comments is that even if she's emotionally unstable and abusing the drug cannot be regarded as a cause for any of her bizarre behavior?
That's a relief! I mean, say I suffer from a variety of mental diagnoses, I can be comforted knowing that when snorting 50mg (or more with each hour)/hour that adderall will not be the reason I drive really fast and make foolish and dangerous decisions.
“That perhaps Spears isn’t a victim of state overreach but instead a success story of state intervention. That maybe her family really does care about her well-being.”
I mean, there’s a lot in between these two extremes. Of course Britney was mentally ill when all of this started. But even the author of this piece was only temporarily institutionalized for his mental illness. He received treatment and apparently got to move on with his life. That is not what happened to Britney. Her father took control of her whole life, including her existing finances AND her career and future earnings. She became his circus monkey, learning tricks and putting on performances when HE told her to. He controlled whom she communicated with. He chose her doctors (who all conveniently confirmed whatever he wanted the judge to believe in order to retain the conservatorship). I’m sorry, but to compare a 13-year state-sanctioned nightmare like this to the author getting voluntary, short-lived, in-patient mental health treatment is disingenuous and illogical.
Britney Spears has a lot of problems. She does not appear to be mentally well. She appears to be suffering from arrested development (among other things) because of the ways in which she has been exploited her entire life.
But she never deserved what her family did to her.
Came here to say this. If they were truly concerned, a conservatorship would have removed her from the public eye immediately. Her parents never should have allowed her to become a hypersexualized child star.
True. What do they do when the record companies dump truckloads of cash on their driveway every day? I'm not excusing her parents' failure. But I am adding the first of many serious obstacles to doing what's right.
I cried listening to her court testimony about the conservatorship (shortly before it ended). So many of the things she wanted were such basic things that most people take for granted. She wanted to be able to ride in her boyfriend's car. She wanted to get new kitchen cabinets. She wanted to be able to pick her own therapist. Apparently she was too mentally ill to decide to do those things, but not so ill that she couldn't play a Las Vegas residency.
Very few people get to breathe the rarified air that comes with the super stardom that Brittany had, and still has. I've never judged her too harshly; I think she is the product of an industry that mercilessly chews up and spits out so many talented people that blaming entirely her, or Miley or Whitney or Amy Winehouse or any of them for pushing back against it is inappropriate and just plain wrong.
i just watched the george michael documentary. he had the same kind of super stardom and i was shocked to learn what was happening behind the scenes with the music execs and the contracts they make their artists sign, often at a very young age and under duress, that basically signs away their rights to the studio for the rest of their professional career. i always knew the record companies were evil (and was keenly aware of prince trying to breakaway from warner bros. in the 90's) but i didn't realize nor remember that it was george who walked so a lucky few of them could run. its just like hollywood as far as chewing them up and spitting them out.
Guardianships, and conservatorships, are not something to be taken lightly. There does need to be level upon level of care and double checking to make sure that the position of power that the courts allow over another adult is not being abused.
As the parent of 2 young men on the autism spectrum this is a reality that has been presented to us time and time again by our lawyers. We have not chosen this step as it takes from our highly intelligent sons their agency and humanity. This drastic step should only be taken if the person is a danger to themselves, or cannot function in a way to protect themselves from societal predators. (Our opinion)
Additionally, there are too many instances where states have allowed the abuse of the elderly through the machinations of conservators. Just look at some of the recent scandals coming out where a single individual, corrupt judge and doctors, persons wholly unrelated to an elderly individual, can have them declared incompetent without having to inform the family. Then the court appointed conservator steals the entire life savings of the elderly. There have also been high profile lawsuits by families here in NY where a conservator is preventing family from even seeing their loved ones.
That being said, I am not so sure that we should really take everything Britney says as gospel. Her actions since her conservatorship ended does show someone who is suffering from mental health issues. While as an adult she is allowed to behave as she wishes, there is an indication that not everything is ok with this young woman. So her perspective of what was done and why is most probably skewed.
That also doesn't mean that her family didn't abuse the conservatorship.
Several things can be true at the same time. She needed help. The only way to get her help was through a conservatorship. It may have lasted too long. It may also have been abusive, or maybe it saved her life.
The last time I was in a bookstore I was amazed at all the biographies - new and recent- written by almost anyone who is famous. Like they can’t help themselves. I could care less about famous people’s lives. It’s just a bit much.
I bought this one. Britney Spears was the background soundtrack to my middle school and early high school years - back then, you couldn't avoid her if you tried - and I was curious what she had to say.
I always tell parents I am about the health of your child, and never ever lead with medications. I emphasize adequate sleep, but parents are allowing their children to stay up until after midnight on their phones, healthy diet but parents are allowing their children to skip breakfast, regular outdoor exercise but parents are allowing their children to remain indoors on their phones or gaming consoles, face to face relationships but parents allow their children to limit their connections to 'virtual' friends, free range play but parents focused on organized sports. The crisis and the tragedy of modern children's mental health should not be addressed with fixes such as medications or therapists or out patient programs, but begins with the family.
People with actual mental illness tend not to be able to make millions of dollars by using their excellent well-functioning brains to write music, perform it in an attractive way etc etc. Balance of probabilities? I'd say she was exploited rather than sick.
Actually, people with mental illness are some of our greatest artists, musicians and writers. The price of fame for a young woman is overwhelming and it’s not surprising that some artists have a breakdown as a result of this overwhelming scrutiny.
That's irrelevant. She's a performer and performers are under high pressure to always be "on." Add to that, the desire for stardom and all that it can bring, and you have the perfect scenario for a mental breakdown. Underlying that, can be a self-destructive urge as a way to stop the pressure. If I'm ill, I can't perform and no one can blame me for being ill. In that whole mix is the desire to just be a normal person and be able to go to a restaurant or movie, or grocery store, and not be recognized. It can be embarassing. Ex: The musician I was working with and I went to a movie. We were standing in line with everyone else and trying to avoid the stares and pointing, when the manager of the theater came outside, saw us standing in line and escorted us into the theater ahead of everyone else and without paying. Going to a restaurant and not being required to pay for the meal because she was a "star."
She didn't write her own songs and she didn't come up with her dance moves. She was auto-tuned to death so really didn't even have to sing well. She was basically paid millions of dollars to stay in shape. cry me a river
You said the need to be "ON" contributed. I'm saying that most of her career was made for her. She basically had to go out and do an aerobic routine and get paid for it.
You said the desire for stardom contributed. I don't feel sorry for someone who wanted to be famous and then got it especially when she leaned into it.
A career can be made for you, and you still have to fullfil the makings. You seem to be obsessed about feeling sorry. No one suggested that you feel sorry for anyone. You can like or dislike Spears. I never saw her perform or heard her recordings so I can't address their quality. I'm talking only about what can contribute to a mental breakdown in the life of a performer.
No one asked you to feel sorry for them. I was merely giving examples of how well known people are treated publicly and that it can be an embarassment when those around them are not treated as well.
And? I'm not really sure getting free stuff qualifies as a symptom of anything. I know it's crazy but you don't have to take free things. You can always pay.
Numerous mental illnesses show up in later adolescence/early adulthood. Bipolar disorder and schizophrenia are two examples of this. I think Spears has the first.
Nope - Lots of people have mental illness and mental illness does not mean you are destitute or unable to work or even thrive. Kanye West is probably mentally ill but he is also a great musician.
Another example of a great mentally ill person was Alan Turing. He is one of the greatest mathematicians to ever live, and he helped crack the German Ciphers in World War 2. He also committed suicide.
I’m not some huge fan of Ms Spears, nor am I hater, but this article seems skewed by the author own experience. Did Britney need an intervention in 2007? Probably. But the way she was treated for years and the amount of money Daddy Spears was making isn’t justified by saying, well, she’s alive and no one was seriously harmed. There was no nuance or reason. It was all or nothing. So now she seems erratic and a bit unstable. Because again they made an all or nothing decision. Total control or no help at all aren’t our only choices in these situations.
Psychiatrist here too. I won’t weigh in on diagnosis as the author and many other “I am not a psychiatrist, but....” commenters here.
But, Brittney was on a probate conservatorship, which is permanent and reserved for people who will never recover--i.e dementia, brain injury. The conservatorship instrument for mental health is called an LPS conservatorship and has wider reach over psych treatment, but is for a one year increment, the idea being the person can recover in that time.
Brittney got probate conserved due to the unethical actions of the court, some shady forensic psychiatrists and her family, and it absolutely wouldn’t have happened without money and influence.
I also think the author can’t be objective and is irresponsible in weighing in on the effects of certain medications--not even addressing what those are or aren’t.
The sad truth is that everyone thinks they are an expert on mental health and can opine because they have seen one case in someone, have it themselves or have it in their family. This is the “n of one” phenomenon where people extrapolate opinion and experience for fact. I am used to pathologists, hematologists, pulmonologists writing inflammatory pieces in the NY Times about psychiatry. I would never write an article in a national publication about hematology. But, there you go. Yes, the brain is a rather complicated organ and we don’t know everything yet, absolutely it is a clinical science in evolution and frankly, harder to figure out than a heart or lungs. That doesn’t mean people struggling don’t get to tell their story and don’t get autonomy to describe it. As wacky as it may be.
Thank you for your comment and your insight. Also, thank you for helping other people. I know psychiatry is hard and popular portrayals of mental health professionals are often negative. Please know that you and your colleagues really do help a lot of people. I would not be here without the help of a psychiatrist and psychologist.
This piece seems disingenuous. The issue isn't really whether or not Britney was fully functional when the conservatorship was imposed on her. Of course she was unwell. That was pretty obvious. What everyone questioned was whether the conservatorship was executed in an appropriate manner, and in Britney's best interests. And there's a big question about whether after the thirteen year ordeal she is more healthy or less healthy.
The impression I got from the news of her that drifted my way, was that they were pumping her full of drugs so that she could continue to generate lots of income for the family, and that the family's main concern was to keep this revenue stream flowing. This may or may not have been true. News about celebrities is notoriously unreliable. But the narrative does seem to roughly fit the known facts. An alternative narrative is that the family just wouldn't accept their child as an adult, especially after her very public self-destructive phase. Perhaps it's a combination of the two. But in any event, it seems very difficult to justify the THIRTEEN YEAR complete infantilization of an adult, especially when there seems to be little evidence that any therapy she was receiving was improving her situation. Infantilization seems like the opposite of what you'd want to do with someone with mental/emotional problems. Instead, you'd want to help them build a healthy and strong personality which would be able to learn to cope with the issues. The author mentions his own brief hospitalization. Brief being the operative word.
But also, when most of us normies look at the long parade of young show biz celebrities whose lives have crashed and burned, we figure that the bright spotlight has a lot to do with the trouble. (Along with, of course, the enabling wealth and fame). So if you truly wanted to help your daughter heal, you'd get her out of the business. Take her somewhere quiet and low pressure, and give her time to pull the pieces together. This is what you do with people who have nervous breakdowns. But that's not what they did. So she was well enough to go out and generate lots of cash for the family, but not well enough to make any decisions on her own. It really doesn't sound like her conservators had her interests in mind.
Britney is clearly not all here now. But I suspect that much of her current trouble stems from what she was put through during the conservatorship. And that's a great tragedy.
I have the impression that conservatorship is mostly an all or nothing proposition. I’ve worked with people who have needed conservatorship and it seems to me they only need it for a part of their lives or for a limited time. It seems to me that the courts should try to arrange it so the conservatorship could be reviewed on an ongoing basis to determine if you are ever able, with supports, get your rights back. It’s frightening to think that the courts could take your rights away permanently.
The guardianship industry is a well designed scam orchestrated by the legal community to plunder the estates of people who have money. It is a multibillion dollar corrupt industry
Yes- my question is WHY SO many? My own theory is a toxic environment from womb through life. And the addition of screens 24-7 doesn’t help. They diagnose preschoolers with ADHD. Perhaps back in the day the food wasn’t poison and the kids got time outside all the time- and we’re allowed to just be.
This issue isn’t rampart in other western nations. There’s something wrong and big pharma from birth to death isn’t the answer bc if that’s the case then we ARE doomed.
And an interesting fact : France (and the EU) does not allow GMOs in their food. Period. France only started to require certain childhood vaxes for school in 2017/2018- it’s like 3 or 4 diseases. European countries dont have ANY pharma ads on their TV screens- ANY. And France and Italy have two of
The highest life expectancies BUT they smoke and drink a LOT. It’s not the healthcare as all would have you believe- it’s the lifestyle. And as a closing point- France has the LOWEST rate of autism of westernized nations. I have to ask- WHY?
OK. So screens, vaccinations, food dyes, lack of fresh air and pharma conspiracies are behind ADHD and autism.
So, old paranoid tropes aside, do you see how your beliefs are predicated on autism and ADHD being terrible, unacceptable things that are perniciously invented and spread around to children? These neurodevelopmental conditions have always been present in the gene pool and people with them are probably the reason we both have these phones we are typing on (Bill Gates anyone?)
But I guess in order to dispel some of your conjecture based conclusions that you share with impunity as if you were a subject matter expert you would have to be a....subject matter expert on neuroscience and neurodevelopmental disorders.
My stepson, Jason, took his life in August, 2019. He had turned 30 a few months prior. His "friends" knew about his erratic behavior, his threats of suicide, his unhealthy relationship with a woman - and they knew my husband and me.
They wanted to "be loyal" to their friend and not "call the parents" about his being in crisis. When I called my stepson's "best friend" to tell him about Jason's death, his first words to me were, "So, he finally did it."
I. SHIT. YOU. NOT.
If my husband and I had had any idea of what was going on, we would have gone for a conservatorship in a heartbeat - no matter how angry it made him. We are living proof that we would rather have a living child hate us, than a dead child.
"Hollywood" will never tell our story. But I did, and you can read it in the link I've added. This IS what Suicide Loss Survivors experience. No one wants to see a movie like this, let alone live it like we have.
I am really sorry for your loss and I am sorry your son's friends did not help him get help. I think the lesson learned is when someone is in trouble, get them help and let others know they need help. Also, if someone is talking about suicide, get them help NOW.
Britney's family first put her in the UCLA BHU. From my recollection, she was there for 6 months. This is a serious place. It's not some cushy place that would have benefitted from keeping her for six months. If they kept her there for that long, she needed to be there for that long.
I think it's obvious to anyone who is the least objective that Spears is spiraling again. I believe she has untreated bipolar disorder and was kept sane by the state forcing her to take her medications. Compare any interview when she was in conservatorship to now. Now that she's off, she spends her day spinning and dancing, pulling her bikini bottoms down, dancing with knives with dirty looking hair and smudged makeup.
If nothing changes, I don't see Britney making it to 45 years old.
I'm not a fan of Brittany Spears, but I did go through a horrible hell with depression and concomitants for about 20 years, starting in my mid-teens.
In my experience, "intervention" was never helpful. Mostly because the people involved didn't really care what I was experiencing; they simply wanted me to "act normal" again.
When I made a suicide attempt at age 21, NO ONE ASKED WHY. That was mind-blowing to me. Doctors and counselors and friends and family...no one seemed the least bit curious about what drove me to want to die.
It wasn't until I was in my mid-20s that I got real help...from "positive mental attitude" speakers who--ironically--didn't care much about me on a personal level, but who cared a great deal about how I, personally, could cope with the *reality* of what I was feeling and experiencing. It was they who helped me come to terms with the fact that no one but me cared about what was going on inside me, and that spending so much energy trying to get other people to care was a recipe for nothing but more and more misery. They gave me permission to feel whatever I chose to feel *for myself.*
I'm still kind of angry about the attitudes that everyone I cared about had toward my suffering. But I also recognize that they themselves may not have had the emotional wherewithal to react appropriately. The medical/psychological people, however, do not get a pass.
So while I don't care much personally about Brittany Spears, I do some empathy toward what she may have been put through by the people who were "just trying to help."
Thanks for your comment Celia. Simply acknowledging that you’re allowed to feel what you feel and that you’re allowed to help yourself is such an easy lesson that somehow takes so long to learn.
Perhaps it explains many of our journeys to this comment section
I do volunteer work for two suicide-related charities and, initially, thought I wasn't helping anyone as they would tell about their terrible life circumstances which, in most cases, I was powerless to do anything about as were they (usually). Then I found a pattern of many people saying "thank you for listening to me" and also saying that NO ONE else seemed interested in them or how they felt and realized most people just want someone to hear what they have to say. I've found just asking friends and family "how are you feeling these days?" can often get an honest answer vs. the more casual/standard "How are you?" to which everyone says "fine" or "good."
I always look forward to your comments. It sounds to me ( I am not a doctor) that you now have a great handle on who and what you are, ( your self) . In today's world I have observed that such self awareness is not nearly as common as it should be. I talk with family and friends lot about this topic for many reasons but one is that most of us have the ability to know and love ourselves ( and in turn find ways to take care of and improve our selves ) if we are aware and make the effort. Glad you have found meaning and purpose in your life.
I've been there too and way more recently. The inconvenience of a suffering family member really wears on our loved ones. Glad to hear you're thriving now!
Behavioral approaches are useful tools. But ultimately it took Lexapro to erase the ugly realities of depression (and for me it was instant improvement from the first pill). Even with that, I still have depression, it's just *treated*. Vitamin D helps offset the seasonal element. But it's a defect in my DNA. Knowing that is also helpful: it's not a character flaw; it's a disease.
Been on lexapro off and on since 2013 and became a personal trainer which is my therapy. Never fails to improve my mood. Also taking accountability for my happiness and misery. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
I’m glad you’ve recovered and I’m so sorry you suffered through that. Would you be comfortable sharing the names of some of the positive mental health attitude speakers who helped you?
Hopefully someone chimes in with some helpful books. Thanks for sharing, Celia. For me, forgiving my family was crucial to my mental health. Anytime I spiraled down I remembered “my family did the best they could. At times, their best wasn’t good enough but that just means I need to be stronger and more self reliant”
Wow, it's been over 30 years now, so I'm not sure I even remember anymore. They were local to my area at the time (Oregon), but started out connected to an outfit in...maybe Texas? Googling isn't bringing up anything that looks familiar. Sorry!
That’s okay, it’s a good place to start. I’ll dig around. Thank you. ❤️
Celia, you are one of my absolute favourite commenters here. I am shocked to read that you were suicidal aged 21. You have “ pulled yourself together” admirably. In defence of those who don’t seem to care, we (I include myself) don’t understand the suffering and can’t bear to be around the negativity. I actually feel angry about the terrible, destructive impact that depressed/anxious/ suicidal behaviour of loved ones has on close family and friends. I too wish everyone could just “ act normal” for the sake of those around them.
Just a heads up, Mr. Appel. I am a psychiatrist, and your assertion that Adderall can induce 'careless, erratic behavior' in the mentally stable is in error: generally, if taken orally, it increases focus and energy. And frankly I have never seen, nor ever read a case report, of a women in severe post partum depression who had 'periods of delusions, impulsiveness, paranoia' directly due to the use or abuse of Adderall. Sadly, severe post partum depression in itself can be associated with delusions and paranoia, without the addition of the stimulant.
I’m honestly baffled that you, as a psychiatrist, don’t know this about Adderall. You don’t need case studies to be observant of the world around you, let alone read the “serious side-effects” on the back of the bottle. I know several people who have taken Adderall for ADHD, including members of my own family. Many have reported significant changes to their emotional state, most predominantly “numbness” or an “inability to care.” For some, this is a horrible side-effect that induces a depressive state—that was the case for my brother who begged my mom to get off the stuff. For others, it’s euphoric, suppressing their depression and anxiety symptoms. (And I think it’s this effect that gets some people hooked.)
Yes, baffling! From the Presceibing Information for Adderall: "Psychiatric Adverse Events: Stimulants may cause treatment-emergent
psychotic or manic symptoms in patients with no prior history, or
exacerbation of symptoms in patients with pre-existing psychosis."
In all my years I've always assumed that psychiatry, medication, etc. were perfect and that psychiatrists, psychologists, etc. surely knew all the answers about our mental health. I hate having to accept the reality that there are not necessarily answers for every person, and that some things can't be fixed.
A lot of people assume that about all doctors, and it's far from true. Psychiatry is probably a tougher discipline to get right most of the time, less exact and more trial and error needed. I think the first time a parent or older loved one goes into the hospital is a moment of strong disillusionment for many smart people about how poorly our healthcare works. When people say "you need an advocate", i.e. a smart person in your family working on your behalf, that's because healthcare administration is poor. The family usually are the ones telling the doctor who's new that day what the patient has actually gone through in the past 24 hours, what actually happened, etc. Sad that there is virtually no accurate debriefing from well-educated doctor to well-educated doctor when responsibility shifts based on their time schedules, and that no one really cares. If the doc makes a mistake because the system sucked and they weren't well-informed, their take is simply that the system sucks and they can't be blamed, and few try to fix it.
What an odd faith so many of you have in psychiatrists! To me, in is par for the course for a psychiatrist not only to not know common side effects of drugs, but to confidently "correct" those more knowledgeable.
Because you are mental health doctor- I wonder if you know what is being done to curb the incessant use of mental drugs that are prescribed like candy to children in our country. At least half of my kids friends have been on mental medications- HALF. And most do not receive what I would deem REQUIRED mental health counseling. I have a friend who is 35- she was on Reddlin for 15 years as a young teen well into adulthood- she finally took herself off because she realized she couldn’t live her whole life like that. I wonder if the constant prescriptions are actually making mental health outcomes worse?
My own children and some of my grandchildren have been diagnosed with ADHD. I have seen how they function with and without medication. All are intelligent people, but without medication they’re not only disorganized messes, but a couple of the youngest ones have significant problems with behavioral control. It’s not just a focus thing and medication doesn’t cure it. Medication is more like a pair of glasses that allow them to function more consistently on par with their intelligence. They still have to learn other ways to cope with the ADHD. The newer medications are extremely subtle in how they work, better than Ritalin. However, like many psychotropic drugs, some work for an individual better than others and it may take awhile to find the best one. I have seen mental health of my family members IMPROVE with medication when they finally had a fighting chance to be their best selves. ADHD is genetic, which may explain why your friends have more than one child with that brain architecture.
The real question to be asking here is why so many children are having these foundational mental problems nowadays. This was unheard of only a few decades ago, and is not normal.
Its like 1 in 5 adults are on mental meds. Long term maintenance; not crisis intervention.
And the kids? We can’t put garbage in and not expect garbage out. If GMO foods and sugar in everything is safe; why is 70% of the US obese or overweight? And yes it’s genetic for some- but there’s a reason they feed corn to cattle and pigs and chickens- it’s quickly and cheaply fattens them up. They feed this stuff to newborns in formula. Americans would be shocked if they read the labels on food and knew what they all meant. Or know that everything is covered in chemicals in the corporate fields. You can’t wash off a season of pesticides and herbicides in the sink.
The digestive system is known as our “2nd brain”…..perhaps the collective WE need to address the gut and not the brain for the learning issues and demand the FDA and CDC actually do their job or get rid of their useless jobs.
You have a good point here. I'm really health conscious in terms of what I eat but not a fanatic (I'll eat a big piece of pie *IF* it's homemade and I recognize the names of all the ingredients and none of them are dye or preservatives). EVERY food commercial on TV is for some godawful "meal" and each company seems to try to outdo the others into how much sugar, fat and salt they can stuff into whatever they're serving. Deep-fried pizza with stuffed crust and quadruple cheese! And this food is cheap because the government subsidizes corn but not, say, broccoli.
And in France for example (bc that I have first hand knowledge AND their lifestyle is often used to promote universal/socialized medicine) they subsidize locally produced food and are highly protective of family farms and “clean” foods.
Follow the money.
Check out Harald Blomberg Rhythmic Movements that Heal, or Sally Goddard, or Sonia Story, ADHD as motor neuron immaturity. Based on what I've read and experienced, I don't think it is genetic, I think it is caused by prenatal/early life stress, and lack of movement. That is what is causing the increase in ADHD (and other learning disabilities). Robert Whitaker's Anatomy of an Epidemic suggests that the psych meds themselves are responsible for the increase in severe mental illness.
It was unheard of because no one talked about it as such. Everyone older than 40 likely remembers the kids in grade school who lashed out, didn't pay attention, caused most of the trouble, etc.
Today the demands on students are much more. There used to be ample recess for students and fewer academics at early ages. Increasing scholastic demands on today’s students necessitates more seat-work in the classroom. Many children no longer walk to school. Physical activity helps a lot of people with ADHD and now students have less of it. I think there was just as much ADHD in the past, but society and education has changed in ways that are less helpful to those with ADHD. Additionally, many people with ADHD have comorbid conditions such as anxiety. My understanding is that it has to do with brain architecture. The reason why some of the behaviors and symptoms are singled out and labeled as “ADHD” is 1) insurance needs a diagnosis and 2) remedies which help people with certain behaviors can be grouped together to help others with similar symptoms and behaviors.
Thank you so much for this comment, Caryl. I have ADHD - as does my mother, who wasn't diagnosed until her sixties - and you said everything I wanted to say.
Let’s not forget how the fields of psychiatry and psychology flip flop all over the place throughout the years. To say there’s some sort of permanent understanding of drugs and treatments courses in this field is laughable. These are the people that support life altering hormone suppression therapy to undeveloped children who on a whim declare they’re a different gender. Not that all of medicine isn’t this way, but this field especially so.
My mother was told I had adhd when I was in 1st grade. My teacher told her I just look out the window when she’s talking and suggested medication (which I’m sure psychiatrists everywhere would have been giddy to prescribe). My mother suggested she was a boring and uninspiring teacher, refused medication, and I went on to have a perfectly successful academic path. I’m now a physician. Not a psychiatrist, thank god.
Dasha, I too am a physician, older than you for sure as ADHD didn’t exist when I was at school. I don’t even remember children behaving badly. Parents and teachers didn’t put up with it. Looking out the window was alright if one was quiet about it 😂.
Absolutely! I fear the direction of the mental fortitude of this country. Every time there is one of these psychopaths that shoots up a public place, the first thing everyone brings up is how the state of the mental health care system is in crisis and we need more services. But I can’t see how that would be true. There’s a therapist hiding behind every blade of grass. There’s online therapy, inpatient, outpatient, meditation, medication, clubs, groups, you name it. It’s the biggest bubble in healthcare I’ve been alive to witness. No other field exploded with on ground accessibility the way the mental healthcare system has, and yet everyone seems to be mentally worse off than they ever have been. Looking at patient charts, the whole of my state suffers from anxiety, depression, and GERD. So clearly the treatment isn’t curing the condition.
A couple of comments. First, psychiatrists and psychologists help a lot of people. I would not be typing this comment if I had not gotten help. Second, therapy and medication can really help people who are struggling. Third, while both professions have made mistakes and are imperfect, there really is no better option. The reason is a lot of mental health problems are hard to fix and it is really hard for humans to change their behavior.
I am glad you did well without medication, and it would not surprise me if some doctors unneeded medication. At the same time, your distain for psychiatrists and psychologists is not helpful nor warranted because they really do help people and they are the best solution we have right now.
I respectfully disagree. My feeling is that what most psychiatrists offer is a slew of pills meant to “cure” mental illnesses that in the past were remedied by upholding familial and friendly connection, exercising, eating well, doing work that is fulfilling and you are proud of. Over time, big pharma, self righteous psychiatrists, and patients who didn’t want to hear the old “eat well and exercise” began to lubricate the market with meds. Like anything in life, health takes a lot of work. Mental health takes a lot of work. Pills are not replacements for that. They may be adjuncts, but far too many physicians have given up altogether on even trying to suggest these medications are tools meant to supplement healthy choices and work, not replace a lifetime of bad habits.
Secondly, there is an expectation, especially in developed western societies, that the default should be constant happiness. When people aren’t happy, they seek therapy, and those therapists insist they are victims or defective or push the agenda that people need help. But we aren’t meant to be happy all the time. The rest of the world population expects to be unhappy and suffer - and if they can find a little bit of joy, they feel fortunate for that. Here it’s backwards.
And lastly, the explosion of therapists, online therapy, the gargantuan growth of this sector, leads me to believe something is wrong. People are “unhappy” and anxious, and there is a long line of others who found a way to capitalize on that, by coddling the masses. In reality, people are much more resilient than that. But you have to put the work in. That’s just one opinion, of course.
I think you have a lot of misconceptions about mental illness, psychiatrists, and therapy. First, eating well, taking care of yourself, spending time with heathy family members, spending time with friends, etc. are good ideas. However, these things cannot fix delusions, trauma, bipolar, panic attacks, moderate or severe depression, eating disorders, etc. In fact, a lot of moderate and severe mental illnesses prevent people from taking care of themselves. They can also make it hard for other people to be around the mentally ill individual. Second, I have never met a psychiatrist who thinks they can cure mental illness by just prescribing medication. They understand the benefits of medication and medication's limitations. That being said, most people who need medication do better on it. Third, a good therapist does not tell a client they are a victim or defective. Just the opposite, they are trying to help their clients be independent and not need a therapist.
I have been in therapy for decades and I can tell you I am not there because I think I should be always happy. I am there because I struggle with a lot of difficult issues which I cannot fix on my own.
Reading your comments, I really don't think you understand mental illness or what mental health professionals do. Mental illness is very hard and unpleasant. No one wants it. Fixing it is very hard and right now, the best a person can do is get help and find something which works for them.
Again, respectfully, thank you for responding and I appreciate your engagement in this conversation.
In one sentence you say therapist are trying to help their clients be independent and not need a therapist, and in the very next one you say you have been in therapy for decades and you have issues you cannot fix on your own.
My point is, maybe you can, and therapy is not the answer. If it were, don’t you think decades of this treatment would have helped? It may feel good or feel like progress, but like you pointed out, the end point of treatment is the obsoletion of its need. If you need it for decades, maybe it has failed to give you the tools you need to deal with this on your own.
The way I see it, mental illness is a spectrum. On the extreme side there are severely mentally ill individuals whose mental issues create a lifetime of debilitation. Disorganized schizophrenics who end up homeless, bipolar people with manic episodes that destroy their entire lives, violent people who destroy the lives of others. And such people have existed since the dawn of time, continue to exist now, and they will never be properly treated because there is no cure. Even management of symptoms is somewhat of a farce in my opinion - these floridly psychotic people may respond to one drug or another after weeks or months of experimentation, but they eventually have another relapse or trigger to psychosis and they’re back where they started. Ultimately, they’re psychotic people who occasionally get some control, but they will always be psychotic people. I think psychiatrists really overestimate their role in these peoples treatment - if temporary control is ever attained, it’s fleeting and the majority of these people don’t live normal productive lives.
On the other end of the spectrum are people with occasional anxiety or depression. Things literally everyone experiences. The therapy and psychiatry culture will encourage these people to get help. It used to be such problems would be solved by talking to family, leaning on your community, church, synagogue, friends, whatever. But therapists will encourage them to replace those connections with therapy. Psychiatrists will immediately offer medication, many with side effects. And the message is always, you need help. So if one could be enabled to deal with these feelings and overcome them, through perseverance, and come out the other side better for it - therapy and psychiatry encourages people not to do that.
The proof to my hypothesis is that we have more therapists and psychiatrists and mental health awareness now than at any other stage in human history. And yet… it seems we also have record mental illness. The treatment is not working. The culture of therapy is facilitating, normalizing, and encouraging the pandemic of mental illness.
I hope this attitude towards mental health doesn’t prevent you from referring your patients with mental health issues to us psychiatrists. I don’t know what your specialty is, but I am pretty sure if I heard it I wouldn’t disparage it. We all need to work to advance our understanding together. Do you really think *any* doctor goes into medicine to gleefully diagnose crippling disease so they can force-medicate it?
Disparaging psychiatry is not to disparage you, of course, so don’t take my comments to heart. No, I don’t think anyone goes into medicine to force medication on people to a hopeless outcome. But, I think a lot of physicians convince themselves they are doing good, when really they are not. To me the litmus test is often that the most difficult thing is usually the most correct. And in psychiatry, isn’t that true? The easiest treatment for depression is for you to prescribe an SSRI or whatever the sexiest new medicine is at the time. The most difficult thing would be to insist that patient eat healthy, exercise regularly, find fulfilling employment, work hard, achieve things. Studies even have shown that regular exercise is an equivalent to antidepressant medication, without all the side effects and risks. So why aren’t you pushing for that, every single time? Because you are convinced that medication is good, and because the latter is easy. It’s the institutional gold standard. But it’s wrong.
I'm not a psychiatrist but I think Spears has untreated bipolar disorder. When she was in the conservatorship (and being forced to take her meds) she was much more stable than we are seeing now.
You can just tell from her Instagram
Videos she’s unstable. She has a vacant look in her eyes
You cannot diagnose her with bipolar disorder because you are not a psychiatrist and because you have not personally seen her as a patient.
I can say first hand that I was in a group project with a mentally healthy student that took Adderall to "focus and be productive", and it, indeed, made her careless and erratic. She thought she was being productive, but really, she was so wild that I couldn't even read her notes and she was useless in the group.
This wouldn't show up in a self-reported survey, because she thought she was being studious and productive. I know this is anecdotal, but that doesn't mean it's not true in some cases.
One other thing, psychiatric drugs do not work the same way in each person. The same drug will be amazing for one person and do nothing for another person. You cannot determine if a drug is effective by just looking at a few isolated cases.
Was the Adderall proscribed by a psychiatrist? Was the Adderall taken as proscribed? If someone is mentally health, they would not need Adderall and should not be taking it. Self-medication does not work (i.e. a person cannot decide to just take a psychiatric drug because it leads to harm).
It definitely was not prescribed, but that's the original comment's point, that Adderall doesn't cause mentally healthy people to become erratic (ever). In my friend's case, it definitely did.
Bro, it's in the Prescribing Info.
The author did suggest that abuse of Adderall combined with underlying issues is epecially problematic. Psychosis seems to be a possible side-effect: https://www.drugs.com/adderall.html
It's not for me to judge whether an autobiography reveals the full truth, but we know that musicians in the USA have often taken many, many drugs in dangerous amounts and combinations.
Perhaps if the parents of other well-known musicians such as Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Kurt Cobain, Jim Morrison, and others had been able to be more involved, those legends would have lived past 27 years old.
The tremendous loss of opportunity, happiness, and health caused by drug abuse in the West cannot be overstated. Our major cities are clogged with the endgame results.
Is that still true if someone takes a large amount of the drug?
sudden withdrawal from Adderall can cause psychosis.
...your assertion that Adderall can induce 'careless, erratic behavior' in the mentally stable is in error: generally, if taken orally, it increases focus and energy."
Well, that's great. How about when Adderall is abused by dosage and frequency as well as the manner of administration (likely snorted) by some one who is mentally unstable?
Your comment completely ignores two factors which can make a critical difference. Which, renders it pointless.
But what I'm to take away from your final comments is that even if she's emotionally unstable and abusing the drug cannot be regarded as a cause for any of her bizarre behavior?
That's a relief! I mean, say I suffer from a variety of mental diagnoses, I can be comforted knowing that when snorting 50mg (or more with each hour)/hour that adderall will not be the reason I drive really fast and make foolish and dangerous decisions.
“That perhaps Spears isn’t a victim of state overreach but instead a success story of state intervention. That maybe her family really does care about her well-being.”
I mean, there’s a lot in between these two extremes. Of course Britney was mentally ill when all of this started. But even the author of this piece was only temporarily institutionalized for his mental illness. He received treatment and apparently got to move on with his life. That is not what happened to Britney. Her father took control of her whole life, including her existing finances AND her career and future earnings. She became his circus monkey, learning tricks and putting on performances when HE told her to. He controlled whom she communicated with. He chose her doctors (who all conveniently confirmed whatever he wanted the judge to believe in order to retain the conservatorship). I’m sorry, but to compare a 13-year state-sanctioned nightmare like this to the author getting voluntary, short-lived, in-patient mental health treatment is disingenuous and illogical.
Britney Spears has a lot of problems. She does not appear to be mentally well. She appears to be suffering from arrested development (among other things) because of the ways in which she has been exploited her entire life.
But she never deserved what her family did to her.
Came here to say this. If they were truly concerned, a conservatorship would have removed her from the public eye immediately. Her parents never should have allowed her to become a hypersexualized child star.
True. What do they do when the record companies dump truckloads of cash on their driveway every day? I'm not excusing her parents' failure. But I am adding the first of many serious obstacles to doing what's right.
I cried listening to her court testimony about the conservatorship (shortly before it ended). So many of the things she wanted were such basic things that most people take for granted. She wanted to be able to ride in her boyfriend's car. She wanted to get new kitchen cabinets. She wanted to be able to pick her own therapist. Apparently she was too mentally ill to decide to do those things, but not so ill that she couldn't play a Las Vegas residency.
I agree.
Very few people get to breathe the rarified air that comes with the super stardom that Brittany had, and still has. I've never judged her too harshly; I think she is the product of an industry that mercilessly chews up and spits out so many talented people that blaming entirely her, or Miley or Whitney or Amy Winehouse or any of them for pushing back against it is inappropriate and just plain wrong.
i just watched the george michael documentary. he had the same kind of super stardom and i was shocked to learn what was happening behind the scenes with the music execs and the contracts they make their artists sign, often at a very young age and under duress, that basically signs away their rights to the studio for the rest of their professional career. i always knew the record companies were evil (and was keenly aware of prince trying to breakaway from warner bros. in the 90's) but i didn't realize nor remember that it was george who walked so a lucky few of them could run. its just like hollywood as far as chewing them up and spitting them out.
Guardianships, and conservatorships, are not something to be taken lightly. There does need to be level upon level of care and double checking to make sure that the position of power that the courts allow over another adult is not being abused.
As the parent of 2 young men on the autism spectrum this is a reality that has been presented to us time and time again by our lawyers. We have not chosen this step as it takes from our highly intelligent sons their agency and humanity. This drastic step should only be taken if the person is a danger to themselves, or cannot function in a way to protect themselves from societal predators. (Our opinion)
Additionally, there are too many instances where states have allowed the abuse of the elderly through the machinations of conservators. Just look at some of the recent scandals coming out where a single individual, corrupt judge and doctors, persons wholly unrelated to an elderly individual, can have them declared incompetent without having to inform the family. Then the court appointed conservator steals the entire life savings of the elderly. There have also been high profile lawsuits by families here in NY where a conservator is preventing family from even seeing their loved ones.
That being said, I am not so sure that we should really take everything Britney says as gospel. Her actions since her conservatorship ended does show someone who is suffering from mental health issues. While as an adult she is allowed to behave as she wishes, there is an indication that not everything is ok with this young woman. So her perspective of what was done and why is most probably skewed.
That also doesn't mean that her family didn't abuse the conservatorship.
Several things can be true at the same time. She needed help. The only way to get her help was through a conservatorship. It may have lasted too long. It may also have been abusive, or maybe it saved her life.
Either way, the story is a terribly sad one.
It always astounds me.... who buys these books?
The last time I was in a bookstore I was amazed at all the biographies - new and recent- written by almost anyone who is famous. Like they can’t help themselves. I could care less about famous people’s lives. It’s just a bit much.
I bought this one. Britney Spears was the background soundtrack to my middle school and early high school years - back then, you couldn't avoid her if you tried - and I was curious what she had to say.
I always tell parents I am about the health of your child, and never ever lead with medications. I emphasize adequate sleep, but parents are allowing their children to stay up until after midnight on their phones, healthy diet but parents are allowing their children to skip breakfast, regular outdoor exercise but parents are allowing their children to remain indoors on their phones or gaming consoles, face to face relationships but parents allow their children to limit their connections to 'virtual' friends, free range play but parents focused on organized sports. The crisis and the tragedy of modern children's mental health should not be addressed with fixes such as medications or therapists or out patient programs, but begins with the family.
People with actual mental illness tend not to be able to make millions of dollars by using their excellent well-functioning brains to write music, perform it in an attractive way etc etc. Balance of probabilities? I'd say she was exploited rather than sick.
Actually, people with mental illness are some of our greatest artists, musicians and writers. The price of fame for a young woman is overwhelming and it’s not surprising that some artists have a breakdown as a result of this overwhelming scrutiny.
You think she wrote her own music?
That's irrelevant. She's a performer and performers are under high pressure to always be "on." Add to that, the desire for stardom and all that it can bring, and you have the perfect scenario for a mental breakdown. Underlying that, can be a self-destructive urge as a way to stop the pressure. If I'm ill, I can't perform and no one can blame me for being ill. In that whole mix is the desire to just be a normal person and be able to go to a restaurant or movie, or grocery store, and not be recognized. It can be embarassing. Ex: The musician I was working with and I went to a movie. We were standing in line with everyone else and trying to avoid the stares and pointing, when the manager of the theater came outside, saw us standing in line and escorted us into the theater ahead of everyone else and without paying. Going to a restaurant and not being required to pay for the meal because she was a "star."
She didn't write her own songs and she didn't come up with her dance moves. She was auto-tuned to death so really didn't even have to sing well. She was basically paid millions of dollars to stay in shape. cry me a river
So what. Very few performers write their own songs or create their own dance routines and that has nothing to do with their mental condition.
You said the need to be "ON" contributed. I'm saying that most of her career was made for her. She basically had to go out and do an aerobic routine and get paid for it.
You said the desire for stardom contributed. I don't feel sorry for someone who wanted to be famous and then got it especially when she leaned into it.
A career can be made for you, and you still have to fullfil the makings. You seem to be obsessed about feeling sorry. No one suggested that you feel sorry for anyone. You can like or dislike Spears. I never saw her perform or heard her recordings so I can't address their quality. I'm talking only about what can contribute to a mental breakdown in the life of a performer.
Also, I don't feel sorry for people that get free meals and movies. Enjoy it.
No one asked you to feel sorry for them. I was merely giving examples of how well known people are treated publicly and that it can be an embarassment when those around them are not treated as well.
And? I'm not really sure getting free stuff qualifies as a symptom of anything. I know it's crazy but you don't have to take free things. You can always pay.
Numerous mental illnesses show up in later adolescence/early adulthood. Bipolar disorder and schizophrenia are two examples of this. I think Spears has the first.
Nope - Lots of people have mental illness and mental illness does not mean you are destitute or unable to work or even thrive. Kanye West is probably mentally ill but he is also a great musician.
Another example of a great mentally ill person was Alan Turing. He is one of the greatest mathematicians to ever live, and he helped crack the German Ciphers in World War 2. He also committed suicide.
I’m not some huge fan of Ms Spears, nor am I hater, but this article seems skewed by the author own experience. Did Britney need an intervention in 2007? Probably. But the way she was treated for years and the amount of money Daddy Spears was making isn’t justified by saying, well, she’s alive and no one was seriously harmed. There was no nuance or reason. It was all or nothing. So now she seems erratic and a bit unstable. Because again they made an all or nothing decision. Total control or no help at all aren’t our only choices in these situations.
Psychiatrist here too. I won’t weigh in on diagnosis as the author and many other “I am not a psychiatrist, but....” commenters here.
But, Brittney was on a probate conservatorship, which is permanent and reserved for people who will never recover--i.e dementia, brain injury. The conservatorship instrument for mental health is called an LPS conservatorship and has wider reach over psych treatment, but is for a one year increment, the idea being the person can recover in that time.
Brittney got probate conserved due to the unethical actions of the court, some shady forensic psychiatrists and her family, and it absolutely wouldn’t have happened without money and influence.
I also think the author can’t be objective and is irresponsible in weighing in on the effects of certain medications--not even addressing what those are or aren’t.
The sad truth is that everyone thinks they are an expert on mental health and can opine because they have seen one case in someone, have it themselves or have it in their family. This is the “n of one” phenomenon where people extrapolate opinion and experience for fact. I am used to pathologists, hematologists, pulmonologists writing inflammatory pieces in the NY Times about psychiatry. I would never write an article in a national publication about hematology. But, there you go. Yes, the brain is a rather complicated organ and we don’t know everything yet, absolutely it is a clinical science in evolution and frankly, harder to figure out than a heart or lungs. That doesn’t mean people struggling don’t get to tell their story and don’t get autonomy to describe it. As wacky as it may be.
Thank you for your comment and your insight. Also, thank you for helping other people. I know psychiatry is hard and popular portrayals of mental health professionals are often negative. Please know that you and your colleagues really do help a lot of people. I would not be here without the help of a psychiatrist and psychologist.
This piece seems disingenuous. The issue isn't really whether or not Britney was fully functional when the conservatorship was imposed on her. Of course she was unwell. That was pretty obvious. What everyone questioned was whether the conservatorship was executed in an appropriate manner, and in Britney's best interests. And there's a big question about whether after the thirteen year ordeal she is more healthy or less healthy.
The impression I got from the news of her that drifted my way, was that they were pumping her full of drugs so that she could continue to generate lots of income for the family, and that the family's main concern was to keep this revenue stream flowing. This may or may not have been true. News about celebrities is notoriously unreliable. But the narrative does seem to roughly fit the known facts. An alternative narrative is that the family just wouldn't accept their child as an adult, especially after her very public self-destructive phase. Perhaps it's a combination of the two. But in any event, it seems very difficult to justify the THIRTEEN YEAR complete infantilization of an adult, especially when there seems to be little evidence that any therapy she was receiving was improving her situation. Infantilization seems like the opposite of what you'd want to do with someone with mental/emotional problems. Instead, you'd want to help them build a healthy and strong personality which would be able to learn to cope with the issues. The author mentions his own brief hospitalization. Brief being the operative word.
But also, when most of us normies look at the long parade of young show biz celebrities whose lives have crashed and burned, we figure that the bright spotlight has a lot to do with the trouble. (Along with, of course, the enabling wealth and fame). So if you truly wanted to help your daughter heal, you'd get her out of the business. Take her somewhere quiet and low pressure, and give her time to pull the pieces together. This is what you do with people who have nervous breakdowns. But that's not what they did. So she was well enough to go out and generate lots of cash for the family, but not well enough to make any decisions on her own. It really doesn't sound like her conservators had her interests in mind.
Britney is clearly not all here now. But I suspect that much of her current trouble stems from what she was put through during the conservatorship. And that's a great tragedy.
I have the impression that conservatorship is mostly an all or nothing proposition. I’ve worked with people who have needed conservatorship and it seems to me they only need it for a part of their lives or for a limited time. It seems to me that the courts should try to arrange it so the conservatorship could be reviewed on an ongoing basis to determine if you are ever able, with supports, get your rights back. It’s frightening to think that the courts could take your rights away permanently.
The guardianship industry is a well designed scam orchestrated by the legal community to plunder the estates of people who have money. It is a multibillion dollar corrupt industry
Yes- my question is WHY SO many? My own theory is a toxic environment from womb through life. And the addition of screens 24-7 doesn’t help. They diagnose preschoolers with ADHD. Perhaps back in the day the food wasn’t poison and the kids got time outside all the time- and we’re allowed to just be.
This issue isn’t rampart in other western nations. There’s something wrong and big pharma from birth to death isn’t the answer bc if that’s the case then we ARE doomed.
And an interesting fact : France (and the EU) does not allow GMOs in their food. Period. France only started to require certain childhood vaxes for school in 2017/2018- it’s like 3 or 4 diseases. European countries dont have ANY pharma ads on their TV screens- ANY. And France and Italy have two of
The highest life expectancies BUT they smoke and drink a LOT. It’s not the healthcare as all would have you believe- it’s the lifestyle. And as a closing point- France has the LOWEST rate of autism of westernized nations. I have to ask- WHY?
OK. So screens, vaccinations, food dyes, lack of fresh air and pharma conspiracies are behind ADHD and autism.
So, old paranoid tropes aside, do you see how your beliefs are predicated on autism and ADHD being terrible, unacceptable things that are perniciously invented and spread around to children? These neurodevelopmental conditions have always been present in the gene pool and people with them are probably the reason we both have these phones we are typing on (Bill Gates anyone?)
But I guess in order to dispel some of your conjecture based conclusions that you share with impunity as if you were a subject matter expert you would have to be a....subject matter expert on neuroscience and neurodevelopmental disorders.
Get cracking, it takes about 14 years. God speed
My stepson, Jason, took his life in August, 2019. He had turned 30 a few months prior. His "friends" knew about his erratic behavior, his threats of suicide, his unhealthy relationship with a woman - and they knew my husband and me.
They wanted to "be loyal" to their friend and not "call the parents" about his being in crisis. When I called my stepson's "best friend" to tell him about Jason's death, his first words to me were, "So, he finally did it."
I. SHIT. YOU. NOT.
If my husband and I had had any idea of what was going on, we would have gone for a conservatorship in a heartbeat - no matter how angry it made him. We are living proof that we would rather have a living child hate us, than a dead child.
"Hollywood" will never tell our story. But I did, and you can read it in the link I've added. This IS what Suicide Loss Survivors experience. No one wants to see a movie like this, let alone live it like we have.
https://www.leeannerhay.com/uploads/1/5/0/8/15086884/dmn_2020-09-13_a_final_act_of_love_.pdf
I am really sorry for your loss and I am sorry your son's friends did not help him get help. I think the lesson learned is when someone is in trouble, get them help and let others know they need help. Also, if someone is talking about suicide, get them help NOW.
Thank you. And yes, the message is for everyone to #BeThe1To
I am so sorry for the loss of your stepson. It is a shame that his friends did not alert you.
Thank you... yes, it is a crying shame...
Britney's family first put her in the UCLA BHU. From my recollection, she was there for 6 months. This is a serious place. It's not some cushy place that would have benefitted from keeping her for six months. If they kept her there for that long, she needed to be there for that long.
I think it's obvious to anyone who is the least objective that Spears is spiraling again. I believe she has untreated bipolar disorder and was kept sane by the state forcing her to take her medications. Compare any interview when she was in conservatorship to now. Now that she's off, she spends her day spinning and dancing, pulling her bikini bottoms down, dancing with knives with dirty looking hair and smudged makeup.
If nothing changes, I don't see Britney making it to 45 years old.
I preferred Christine McVie. Or Linda Ronstadt. Or even Patsy Cline.
Add Judith Durham to that list......a pure angelic voice.