Officially, the activists with degrees don’t exist. Unofficially, the “salts” helped lead the only successful revolt against the world’s most powerful tech giant.
The college kid activists are just there to get high paying union jobs. They don't care about the workers any more than Amazon does. The difference is that Amazon actually pays the line workers whereas the union bosses will take their dues and tell them how hard they're working for them.
Yeah, the comments from the union people make it pretty clear that their purpose is to recruit / arm-twist the workers into a political movement. They only care about the issues of the actual workers to the extent that they are useful as political cudgels; the other issues will be ignored. The most likely outcome of this is that either the fulfullment centers move to Mexico, or the jobs are replaced with automation.
Unions are big business. The "socialist" union bosses get rich off unions. They have fat salaries and that is not counting how much they can skim of the union treasury.
I understand all of that madness better in the context of coal miner unions where the bosses would literally kill them without recourse etc... But warehouse workers? Starbucks employees? These are not jobs where you put your life on the line every day
For every union kneecapper, I'll give you two employer Pinkertons and state Militiamen who shot to death laborers daring to ask for humane working conditions. Both sides have abuses, but in large, unions are a necessary counterweight to the brutality of some work places.
The Pinkertons or the militia haven't been used to break a strikes in almost 100 years but the unions have been beating people and killing them for years. About thirty years ago the president of the coal miners union and his family were murdered by the guy he beat out in the election for union president. I used to know their names but they elude me now. I know that's weird to remember that crap but it is how I am wired. I will never remember the names of people I meet but historical tidbits glom on to me.
Did you read the article? The salts admit to wanting a socialist world run in communism. "Everyone whining" about this younger generation being on the socialist..." is not a whine, it is restatement of the words coming out of their mouths from quotes in the article.
I agree that unions are a necessary counterweight to the otherwise-unilateral power of employers to make workers dance to any tune no matter how low the pay or onerous the working conditions. Yes, unions have drawbacks and corruption. So do employers. Both are still necessary to make capitalism--capital AND labor, not just capital--work well.
Our younglings should be experts in money, finances, work life, and economics before they're out of grade school, in my opinion. Not the mathematical theory stuff, but how things work in the real world and how it will affect them as citizens.
"It’s not a great surprise that twenty- and thirty-somethings—who came of age in the wake [and Woke] of the housing and financial crises, graduated with unprecedented debt into the so-called gig economy, and are less likely than older generations to marry or own real-estate—are ripe for organizing."
So they feel slighted and wallow in self-pity simply due to when they were born. Entitled to some form of reparations or other Marxist redistribution scheme because they chose to attend an elitist private school to party at for 4 years, then suddenly found themselves in the real world with a useless degree in some contrived grievance "study" and six figures in debt. "Would you like fries with that?"
A little humility and appreciation for delayed gratification might go a long way with the I Want It All And I Want It Now generations.
You are forgetting the part about the helicopter parent that co-opted any unstructured play time.
We hosted a friend's daughter and her Brazilian exchange-student friend for a long (5-day) weekend back in the 'early '90's. The saddest thing that I had ever heard came when she mentioned over a cook-out dinner that this 5-days were her vacation as her (very affluent and successful parents) had the rest of her summer programmed.
One extreme or the other, right? Either parents micromanage every minute of their children's lives (usually with a helmet, knee, and elbow pads mandated) or they completely ignore them to "discover life on their own." What ever happened to normal, rational parenting?
Then again I couldn't imagine trying to raise children in the TikTok/Instragram, 15-second attention span, over-medicated Generation Rx culture of today.
Plus I an gonna go out on a limb and guess the ones quoted here do not have that debt anyway. Rather it sounds like they were recruited/indoctrinated in college.
Every story is different, no doubt. I'm just particularly incensed at those with massive debt who constantly spew ignorant invective at the entirety of those of Western European dissent ("Colonialist oppressors!") along with our nation as a whole, including those who fought and died for it, and yet expect us to pick up the tab for their unfortunate choice of miseducation and misdirection.
Generation Z -- the Z stands for Zero accountability.
Zoom in on Smalls’ jacket. It says: “Eat the rich”. That’s all you need to know. They may call themselves DSA, but they are extremists. The goal is not Socialism with a Human Face attempted during Prague Spring. True, young people are expected to be rebellious. But I wish the fools took history courses along with gender and race studies. The world has already been there and done that with disastrous results in human suffering and death.
The activists are more interested in the money that the unions collect so that they can fund their latest "progressive" venture without too many people crying foul.
The history of the “workers’ movement” is permanently infested with righteous “intellectuals” who pretend to know what’s best for the workers. Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky - all were highly educated people who never worked in a factory but had “great ideas” about what workers should do, eventually creating hell on earth for everybody including “the working class”. In today’s world, where young educated kids are desperately seeking meaning for their super-abundant, totally cushioned life, “activism” has metastized into a real poison for the society.
If these young and arrogant activists were anywhere near as educated as they like to believe they are they would be aware of the true history of Marxism and its derivatives. Not only its perfect record of failure to deliver on any of its promised goals but also of the ever-expanding body count left its wake.
It's much more a lack of critical thinking skills than raw intelligence, IMHO. They have been brainwashed into a collective where independent thought is verboten and unquestioning fealty to the official narrative is the primary directive. Non-compliance is to literally risk everything. Even the smartest people can be co-opted into a state of blissful ignorance.
More fundamentally, it comes down strength of character. God gave you a brain but it's up to you whether to use it or place it aside and "go along to get along".
The concepts of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, union organizers, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Mussolini, and/or Hitler are intoxicating to those that are lacking the shiny object that these guiding lights may have on offer, their achievability notwithstanding.
The Cultural Revolution was far more repression than change.
In terms of raping consumers, unions have now been greatly surpassed by the college-‘educated’, interference class, Zoom call, Human Resources DEI parasites; but unions are still an incredible net detriment to society.
The main problem with jacking up costs at Amazon is that we are simultaneously opening the border and emptying the prisons and handcuffing law enforcement so physical stores will continue disappearing.
It's odd for a conservative to disagree with your statement, but I will...
Unions have brought about plenty of benefits to the working classes, their having been part of the engine that pulled many from the lower rails of society onto the economy's main lines that dominated the last half of the 20th Century. The unions brought the possibilities of economic stability, higher education, and social mobility to those determined to give themselves, their children, and their grandchildren better lives. The unions were a powerful partner in the post-war era.
The problems come with institutionalizing unions as business operations in and of themselves. The moment the emphasis of the movement shifts from improving the lot of the labor force to the health and welfare of the union, they lose a large degree of legitimacy and take on the mantel of political actors extracting dues ostensibly for one purpose and using proceeds for another.
L.K. I think you actually have it exactly right. The once good purpose of unions has been corrupted and now they've been absorbed by political factions effectively rendering them enemies of the republic we're supposed to be.
Unions have helped in the same way that shooting people in the face has helped. If you keep shooting people in the face after WW2 is over then it’s a problem.
Is it any wonder why the Chinese manufacturing sector is kicking our ass? They have none of these encumbrances on the productivity of their workforce. If their workers are displeased they are perfectly free to jump out of the factory window. The definition of a good company to work at in China is one with suicide safety nets outside the building. Lesser ones don't even bother.
Well Said. And I speak as a Former (low level) union official. Something so many people don't understand when it comes to working 'You Get What You Pay For". Pay poorly, get poor workers.
Lets take Temp. workers, and I spent A Lot of time around them (BTW that's how a lot of plants find their permanent workers) the term "as useful as tits on a boar" comes to mind.
> They don't care about the workers any more than Amazon does.
Such mind-reading skills! The robber barons said the same thing in 1900 to the wretches the sent down the coal mines: "Don't unionize men, they are as utterly greedy and immoral as I am."
So? That just means both unions and owners are greedy and do nothing for the workers. At least ownership does not pretend otherwise. There is nothing so egregious as providing false hope. If workers want to do well they should vote smart.
Nothing has ever helped working people more effectively than collective bargaining. Even when unions are corrupt, they have to 'steal for you before they can steal from you' as the saying goes. I was a shop steward for three years, I know what can go wrong with unions but I also know they are the best tool labor has. As we see, when unions are weak, the plutocrats vacuum up almost everything.
Yeah...ok. 500 votes. That's a squeaker. You just learned the term "salting" today.
I get it. Those with more (i.e. "high end") helping those with less to start a union they want...is bad. In reality, the are just as shitty of a person as you are and are just doing "performative wokeness" for secret, nefarious means.
Oh, yes, Lynne. I'm sure they're doing that all over the country. Because there's absolutely no reason Amazon warehouse workers could legitimately want a union.
True intent? Let me guess. Critical Race Theory? Go shoot up some Bud Light, you'll feel better.
No...I learned that term back in high-school earth science when we were taught how cultured pearls are started. That was some sixty-five years ago...longer ago than you likely have been alive...if that is what they call your condition.
I was a Teamster for a couple of years. The only satisfaction I got out of it was voting against Jimmy Hoffa Jr. The whole thing was a scam. I was glad when I quit.
The only difference between company bosses and union bosses is that the company bosses are creating work while the union bosses are simply parasites wanting to suck some of the wages paid to employees while creating nothing at all.
Would love for this article to be a wake up call to readers to reconsider their buying habits and need for instant gratification for cheap goods from China. I know that shopping locally and from neighborhood merchants generally costs more, but the alternative is hollowed out communities with no commerce, no vibrancy and no places to gather. Also, a small business owner assumes great risk by going at it on their own: their chances for failure are higher than for success, and the taxes, levies and fees municipal governments force them to pay are crushing. I am always amazed people take the risk, but am highly appreciative that they do.
It's unfortunate Amazon devalues its workers so much that they're willing and able to replace their entire warehouse workforce every few months. Our constant purchases from Amazon are partly responsible for this attitude. And do we really need next day delivery? Would waiting a couple of days possibly lessen the unrealistic expectations and burdens on these workers?
I'm guilty of shopping from Amazon and I try to shop local merchants, however, crime has played a huge role in consumers shopping online. I purchase drug store toiletries from Amazon because my local Walgreens has empty shelves and what is there, is under plexiglass. The staffing in retail is minimal because no one wants to risk getting assaulted even if they don't resist.
We better start taking the crime situation seriously; we're already a banana republic and I don't mean the store.
So ironic, the progressive delirium that encourages retail theft as a way of life (“reparations” of some sort) simultaneously bemoans the rise of Amazon, the last seller standing when every local retail store is shuttered due to excessive “loss”.
Back in 2021, actress and former gubernatorial candidate, Cynthia Nixon-one of the wokest of the woke-was lambasted for her pro-shoplifting stance. The hypocrisy is just as rampant as the looting.
The tragedy is the fact that jobs are being eliminated for people of all ages; mostly, folks who really need the work. Last summer we went to a Walmart in NJ and as a city girl, I was astounded not only by the size, but by the fact that so many seniors worked there. The fact that crime is the cause of unemployment is an indictment of progressive politics. Rahm Emmanuel, Lori Lightfoot and the newly elected mayor, Brandon Johnson are destroyers of cities. Oprah Winfrey made her billionaire fortune largely from getting her start and her show based in Chicago. Has she said anything about what is going on there?
Yep, the nutty point that many on this chain seem to be making is that I should shut up, get in my car, drive to some mall somewhere, get completely ignored by some snot nose with blue hair, find out my shoe size is not in stock but that it can be ordered, have to drive back home and yep order on Amazon.
One way to take the crime wave seriously is to vote the Democrats out of office, especially the DAs, mayors and governors. look at the cities and states with the highest murder rates. They are run by Democrats. And the morons in the cities and states keep voting these left wing clowns back into office. look at Chicago. They just vote a defund the police mayor.
Chicago has one of the highest murder rates in the nation and these idiots voted in a guy that wants to defund the police. Stupid is as stupid does.
I just looked up the states with the highest murder rates per capita. They're: Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Missouri, and Arkansas. All Southern deep red states.
Cities with the highest murder rates. Houston has a Dem mayor. New Orleans has had a Dem mayors for years. Atlanta has had Dem mayors since 1879. Memphis, Tn has a Dem mayor. Jackson, Mississippi has had democrat mayors for years.
All run by Democrats:
Forbes Magazine,
10 Most Dangerous Cities in the US (#1 is the highest cost of crime)
My wager, without looking it up, is those numbers are driven driven by cities with blue leadership. I can testify that Austin is atrocious. Also modern crime stats are atrocious as they too are politicized. Maybe weaponized.
As much as I like to shop locally, living in the city, with our busy lifestyle, long commute, few people can afford the time to shop locally, and get their cars broken into by the mass of homelessness. When I leave my house during the weekend, the last thing in my mind is to shop locally. My often escape away from the city
Buying toiletries from Amazon is what funds the crime wave. Those toiletries were stolen from the retail outlets, and sold to a fencing operator who resells them on Amazon.
Only very rich people can afford to be that idealistic and follow slogans like “buy American”. The rest are struggling and have to think about making ends meet. And that’s not how free market economy works. Actually, it is the opposite of how it works. You will never have enough people to buy significantly more expensive goods to turn the tide. It is expensive AND inconvenient. Sorry to rain on your parade, just being realistic. A lot has to happen in order for us to become independent from China.
Unfortunately, it's not just local or Amazon. The products are the same (from China), but you probably won't be able to find what you need anyway, because the concept of carrying inventory is out and carrying things Amazon carries is less profitable.
I wish more people were as smart as you. A former parish priest encouraged us to buy local 9 years ago. It is common sense. If you want your community to thrive, or even survive, you have to support businesses in your community.
My son (21) works for Amazon and they're actually a good place to work. He got a job in the warehouse during the plandemic and has steadily been able to move up and now does maintenance on their automated equipment; no college degree and no student loan payments and makes $85K/yr. That Amazon has so much turnover speaks - by and large, there are always outliers and exceptions - more about the lazy, self-entitled "workers" our society has been churning out for decades. These kids really bought into the "work smarter, not harder" and think that means they don't need to expend any effort.
If EVERY company had high turnover that would support your idea that workers are lazy and self-entitled but there are lots of companies where people stay for a long time. Some work environments are better than others. If you're going to give 1/3 of your life to work, it may as well be in as good a place as possible.
Have you been to a McDonald's lately? Of course there is high turnover in entry level jobs which is what is being talked about unionizing. Amazon gets a bad rap because 1) they're huge and 2) their employees have to work all day; there is no lunch rush and then slack time. But I agree with your premise that people should work in "as good a place as possible" - learn a trade (or college with a good major) and don't stay stuck on the bottom rung of the economic ladder.
I have avoided buying from Amazon for a long time for these reasons.
My sister was a Product Manager there and I can tell you the college class gets overworked as much as the factory workers. My sister would regularly be triple-booked in meetings the entire day, attending one while monitoring the chat messages on another. Impossible schedule to maintain, and don't even think about getting pregnant!
Amazon's employment model is based on making big offers to temporary workers who get overworked until they quit. The ones who don't are the valuable work addicts.
What I'm missing from the article and every other on unionization efforts, is why the warehouse workers aren't interested, when unionization seems like an obvious choice?
I wondered the same thing. Why was the vote so close ? Why did so many other sites reject the union? As a former union officer at the local level, have mixed feelings about unions. But it would seem that a union would benefit the workers in those Amazon warehouses. So why do the workers resist organization? I'd love to hear from Amazon workers who voted against unionization.
Thanks for posting this. It's helped me to see my own hypocrisy on this. I am an admitted Amazon addict, yet I supposedly care about my local community and fair pay and wages. I'm definitely not living up to my values here. I have a few things I was going to order on Amazon today and I'm going to check in with our local hardware store first.
If I could find products made in America or even in Europe, I would buy them but most do not exist or are exorbitantly expensive. Hence I buy from Amazon or Walmart but I don't need next day delivery.
Unions are no more then a right arm to the democratic party. It is a way for everyone to fall in line with their policies and crazy "woke" agendas. With 10 years under my belt at Starbucks I was scratching my head thinking"what more could they get from a union". The benefits have been amazing. Healthcare, tuition at ASU, LYRA mental health counseling, Hardship $ in the event of a catastrophic event in your life, conscientious workmans comp in the event of a workplace injury, life insurance, paid parental leave for dad as well as mom, monetary help with adoption, the list goes on and on. When all the benefits are taken advantage of at Starbucks the pay then becomes amazing. Bernie Sanders badgered Howard Schultz for hours concerning what liberals have said was an effort to block union organizing at Starbucks when in reality the company was just working hard to make sure these young adults knew what would happen when they formed a union. Bernie Sanders and his wife are worth MILLIONS and yet he stood in front of Howard Schultz and told him basically that he didn't have the right to be a millionaire. Howard Schultz built his dream from the ground up and employs over 160,000 people in the US. As for me, I stand with Starbucks and will be there until noon on the day of my funeral. :)
I am always suspicious of millionaire communists and don't be fooled Benie is a communist loved by the Democrats. Communism is a bloody brutal system and Bernie loves and promotes it. The man is an idiot but a dangerous idiot.
What is the source that Bernie Sanders is worth "millions." I just looked up his net worth and most web sites put it around $500K, which isn't that much
Bernie and the rest of those knuckleheads are a disgrace and way out of their realm when debating Howard Schultz. Go watch the YouTubes. The politicians are a joke.
AOC and her pals in congress belong to the DSA (Democratic Socialists of America). There is not now nor ever will be a democratic socialist country. The socialist countries like China, Cuba and North Korea are all bloody dictatorships.
Wesleyan and Oberlin grads. From entitled rich families. Did I miss the part about these young ladies agreeing to be disinherited and not receiving any stipends from mom and dad so that they truly are in the same boat as their coworkers . If they have done so, I salute them. I also could not help but draw comparisons to another altruist whose folks teach at Stanford law school.
Unionization will encourage Bezos to automate more aspects of Amazon, reducing the number of jobs. I would guess that most of these jobs are summer or short term jobs in any case.
Unions can serve a good function, but their track record is awful. Corruption abounds. They should be held to the same scrutiny as other groups in terms of transparency and honest disclosure to the union members and the public.
I don't know what exactly caused Amazon to lay off tens of thousands of workers recently, but maybe the upper managers have been alerted to the salts. Not that these rich socialists can foresee entire warehouses shutting down or becoming fully automated.
Thee is something else to keep in mind management (Large Company's) likes Unionization. Because they only have to negotiate 1 contact, instead of contacts with multiple workers.
I find it disingenuous the amazon workers “have no choice.” The free market operates for both employers and employees. If people refuse to work for Amazon, they will raise their wages. As long as they have plenty of employees, things will likely stay the same. “Work related injuries” such as “tendinitis” and “disc degeneration.” Hmm, that used to be considered aging... The fact that these union organizers are all socialists says it all.
I was wondering how that is any different from a construction job or any other manual labor. Seems like young people should be able to handle it, physically.
Reading the article, it highlights to me why jobs and population are leaving New York. The population movements from the coasts to the South and Southwest is among the most significant demographic trends. I foresee a time when the Northeast will be left with jobs for academics, government regulators, activist groups and union organizing. Unfortunately, socialism only works until you run out of people to pay for it.
The reason people leave an area are complex. Most people who leave the Northeast are leaving when they retire to warmer states with lower real estate values. Too high real estate values are the #1 reason people leave California, not ideology.
California has the most unbalanced income distribution of any state. There are the IT billionaires and their $300k tech workers, and the $5/hr farm workers. CA has the highest percentage of poor people of any state. People leave because the 12% state tax is terrible and the IT sector has driven up housing beyond the middle class. And that's not even factoring in all the poop on the sidewalks and crime. And the state treasury is essentially bankrupt. What once was a great state (60's 70's) has become a hell-hole under Donkey rule.
Dave, the average arrival here in Dallas from California is 32 wanting to buy a house. I agree it is not about ideology. I would add it is the consequences of ideology. Dallas and Houston counties with 10 million population issued significantly more new housing permits in 2022 than California with 39.0 million. The new arrivals are voting overwhelming Republican for what it is worth.
I left CA because of the disastrous politics (Newsom), the outrageous taxes being wasted on non-existent masks, unemployment fraud, and invisible bullet trains, and because voting Republican there was akin to spitting into the wind.
No it seems that wealth is extracted from productive sectors of the economy into cities that specialize in finance, advertising, entertainment, and lifestyle douchiness. The fortune of Wall Street is built on the workers of America. The glitz of Hollywood is parasitic on the minds and wallets of the youth being sold destructive music and television
I'm no big fan of Wall Street nor Hollywood (I have lived in both cities, have you?), but median statistics means half higher and half lower and is not affected by extreme salaries like "average." If you ask most folks, they would say it is better to make $85,000 rather than $65,000. The vast majority of folks don't work in finance, advertising, nor entertainment.
But, those that do aren't some evil cadre to most people either.
Do the stats you present above account for cost of living expenses? It’s the net amount that is important. I would take lower income (salary) if my net was higher.
Cost of living is highly variable depending on individual preference. You want to live rural or in a city or suburb? You shop a Walmart or local? You drive new cars or slightly used cars or really used cars. The cost of buying new or used cars are essentially the same (maybe some variance on whether you need AWD, etc.) Cost of groceries are pretty standard. Cost of health care pretty much the same. Real Estate is highly variable. Taxes end up being pretty close when you add all of it in. Gas is variable depending mostly on taxes. Local farmers markets are variable. Etc.
Problem is, of course, jobs. Rural areas lack jobs. Cities have lots of jobs. And of course cost of real estate. You can buy the same house for 50% in Texas than California and 75% in the Northeast.
Every economic metric not tied to growth favors the northeast over the southeast. Poverty, Median Household Income, School outcomes (HS graduates, college graduates, test scores, etc.) favor the Northeast. The NE also pays more for their schools. People tend to like the outcomes more than the cost. You/others might be different?
More to the point of the post, union members make 18% more than non-union members for similar work. Three issues keep the northeast metrics better. #1 higher percentage of union members. #2 Higher percentage of Catholics (which divorce less than any other religion; Evangelicals divorce more than any other religion). Divorce is very destabilizing and causes poorer economic outlook. #3 More educated work force.
I try not to simplify these issues, they are complex and encompass our economy as is changes and grows.
All these metrics are well known and go back for generations. Ideologues (right or left) don't like to deal with facts. And there are many reasons not to live in the northeast nor be a union worker. Florida is a state I know well and has a boom/bust history which IMO will continue. A lot of Florida issues are covered up by the amount of retirees that end up in Florida. Texas historically has a boom/bust cycle generally tied to the oil business. I hope that with the current influx we won't see as much bust as is historical for Texas.
As an aside, I know several older union carpenters that head to Florida in the winter, find work making their usual union wages (without the benefits of course) because well off people will pay them more than twice the local carpenters knowing they will get the work done well and in a timely manner. The apprenticeship programs for unions in the trades is very underestimated in helping people find well paid and satisfying work. We, as a country, should lean into it more.
I agree that preferences and culture do create complexity. But you did present median household income numbers for various states without presenting median cost of living numbers for those same states. I think that your data is incomplete and doesn’t necessarily support the conclusion that unionization results in people that are better off (or better trained or more highly skilled for that matter). I don’t know the answer, which is why I asked the question. If you have the data, please provide a link. Thanks!
I make considerably more in the northeast than I'd make in the south or southwest. Even after taxes and housing, it's still more and most recreation costs the same no matter where you live.
When I lived in NYC it was expensive as hell, but I didn't need a car which saved me a ton of money.
At least in the northeast you can somewhat SEE what you get for your money, especially the mostly good to excellent schools and safe communities. We've had one murder in the past 50 years. California, where I've also lived, is a bit iffier because the taxes are higher but the schools aren't great, the safety isn't that great, etc.
Firstly, none of those places are genuinely socialist.
Secondly, purchasing power is more important than raw salary, so compare those places again in terms of post-tax takehome pay relative to local purchasing power. Despite higher salaries, California and Massachusetts are two of the most unaffordable states in the union.
I just put that in to needle the right wing ideologues who label everything socialist.
Most of the metrics on most affordable are dominated by average RE values. And the states that generally come out on top are midwest states with a large rural population. N Dakota, S Dakota, Iowa, Indiana, Michigan, etc. And that metric really is all about low RE values, which are low because either lack of jobs and/or people just don't want to live there. The most expensive states are Hawaii, NY (because of NYC) and Mass. Wages are really high in Honolulu, NYC and Boston to account for that. You generally get what you pay for in this world, and apparently there are plenty of people who like to live in those areas so feel they are getting a good deal. Having spent a large part of my life living in Florida, I have seen the regular complaints from those moving into Florida when they realize that they aren't going to get what they are use to in terms of services. Seen the same thing lately here in New Hampshire when all the Covid refugees moved up here from NYC and Boston. How people choose to live is always interesting to me. I went from a high crime city in Florida to a no-crime area of New Hampshire and find it refreshing and even entertaining (half the people never lock their doors in my town) when visitors come and realize we don't always lock our doors and cars!
What is most upsetting is when the cost of living is not eqalling the quality of life. If high taxes meant better schools, great police and fire service, along with things like clean and efficient transit and good roads, and overall well maintained infrastructure then it would be well worth the cost.
I'm in the NYC suburbs and the schools are excellent, as are the police and fire. Transit is good for going to/from NYC but not as great locally. The infrastructure is well maintained--decent streets, sidewalks, lighting, snow plows quickly after a storm, etc.
Also who knows the relative difference in average hours worked between the households in these states. Could be more single breadwinner families in the south (which would match up with their higher fertility rates), or it could be the northeasterners are overworked.
Thanks for this, Dave. Also, the Baby Boom is retiring in masses, and where do cold-weather-state people retire? To warm-weather states with (presumably) lower taxes. That's primarily why Florida, Texas, Arizona, Tennessee, et al are benefitting: Boomers are retiring to nicer weather.
Along with those higher wages in CA go sky high housing prices, gas tax of $1.08 per gallon when other states charge $.29 per gallon tax, not to mention crazies trying to tax miles driven in certain areas, crazies trying to tax the money in the bank, etc. Socialism produces a reduced quality of life as well.
And Wall Street and its affiliated financial services machinery as it has been since pre-Civil War but thoroughly entrenched and enriched there post-Civil War.
As with all things, the superior elites know what’s best for the inferior working class who are too ignorant to make decisions that they have to live with.
God save us from over-educated Rich kids. I'm sure they mean well but so did all the union organizers that invaded the South and Appalachia a few decades ago. Those organizers are now doctors and lawyers up north raising happy little country club families and the people they left behind are fentanyl addicts and unemployed as they watch their jobs go overseas. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and I wish these activists would realize that companies cannot pay off the extortion money to the government to fund all our social programs and at the same time pay high wages. In some cases such as Amazon unionization is probably necessary to force the company to be humane but they are a rare extreme example.
Interesting. When people refer to millennials, they're "lazy and not wanting to work" but when referring to literal drug addicts who choose to stay in a depressed place rather than learning a new skill, they're just "the people left behind."
More than once in my life, I've had jobs that became obsolete as technology advanced. I learned to do something else. What's stopping the people in the South and Appalachia from doing the same?
The fentanyl addiction. Your ready defense of the anything but do-gooders and lack of empathy is stunning. These people in "the South and Appalachia" have been left behind by modern life. If they moved to your neck of the woods they would be the homeless.
Learn to code? I thought we were past that but nonetheless I will try to explain succinctly since this is not the forum for it. The baby boomer Elites of this world did two things during their reign. One was to globalize the world and the other was to financialize everything in america, siphoning off the financial cream for themselves and leaving companies and people in mountains of debt. Doing those two things simultaneously made them wealthy beyond belief and gave them an elite status that they were seeking but it also betrayed their fellow countrymen and left a lot of people behind. People that would have been just fine had America operated under the principles of the Elite Boomers parents. Besides learn to code is no longer an option since AI is going to take those jobs as well and I'm wondering if everyone will be so dismissive once White Collar college educated people start losing their homes and jobs and turn to fentanyl supplied by China which by the way still has favored member trading status with the United States. Those dismissive of the South's poor towns and factories and those in Appalachia need to consider the old adage..." there but for the grace of God go I ..." Or more in the modern context ..."winter is coming."
there’s Jeff, then the robots, and then the rest of the humans that work there way down below.” --- Wait, isn't Jeff one of the darling liberal people with more money than many corporations? Him, Suckenburg, Gates, Kerry, Gore, and others. Thought they were the darlings of the liberal elite, especially during campaign finance season? Much like the very rich actors DeCrapo, they talk a good game but in reality live the life they believe only they deserve.
Does this mean out of touch and wanting utopia rich kids at least learning real work is not fun and corporations will just use you. Always been that way and unlikely to change. But the rich kids who already have money in their future from Mom and Dad pretend to care for their glory. It’s not a great surprise that twenty- and thirty-somethings—who came of age in the wake of the housing and financial crises, graduated with unprecedented debt into the so-called gig economy, and are less likely than older generations to marry or own real-estate—are ripe for organizing. --- News here! Housing and financial issues have always been here and this is not new to this generation. I grew up with them as did most people I know, so you are not special in this problem. Should Amazon be rained in? Yes. They suck at using recycled goods and do destroy local businesses, much like Walmart and Costco. But the rich get to pay off the local, state and federal government. The Feds by the corrupt politicians like AOC, Bernie, and yes the repubs also. The electors need to become more educated on candidates but not likely with the need to spend millions on a Congressional seat that pays about $250K a year.
For the kids with debt. Well maybe don't attend colleges that drive your debt up. Try using Junior College then the 4 year college to complete. Maybe get a degree that actually has value. How about a good trade school. Amazon warehouse probably does suck. But be a plumber digging up pip[es in the winter, or the heating person working outside to fix your system. How about the electrical line-people who work through natural weather disasters? Most of these salts had Mommy and Daddy pay for their socialist education. To me they have little to no credibility.
And one day these kids will grow up and learn what everyone learns, if they have any sense. Socialism doesn't make money. It does not create wealth. It just redistributes, which is all well and good up to a point, but someone has to make the stuff to redistribute. The only sustainable society makes money, and redistributes some of it, but accepts that in order to do so there must be those that give and those that receive, ie some financial inequality. The hard part is finding the right balance. America has had a forty year run now of wildly successful creation, but nowhere near enough redistribution. The danger is that idealistic kids like these will get "the revolution they [think] they deserve" and destroy the means to make wealth. I grew up in post-war socialist Britain. Nationalised railways, road haulage, post office, telephones, gas, electricity, steel, coal, water ultilities, healthcare, education. Nice in some ways, awful in others. Powerful unions destroyed those industries and caused stagflation. Industrial disease, we called it. Maggie Thatcher's medicine tasted bitter, but she was proven right. Sadly though, we don't learn from the past and are now about to repeat the cycle.
AOC explicitly tells her followers that wealth comes from the government and that's why they need to take over to redistribute it more fairly. They don't understand the concept of productive work.
Six weeks after I started my professional career, the unionized clerical workers went on strike for over a year. As a newly minted engineer, myself and five or so similarly situated people were tasked with assuming the work of a crew of about 12 strikers.
In about 8 weeks we had cleared their workload, a two foot tall stack of shop problems. Why? By union agreement each document they touched required a minimum of two hours to process, so 4 per day maximum. As salaried employees, we had no such restriction. If a task took an hour or five minutes, we’d move on to the next one.
This has soured me to unions for over 40 years. Don’t get me wrong…unions have contributed greatly to achieve benefits such as a 40 hour work week, vacation, holiday, and sick time, and worker safety. Yes…I find some of the conditions at Amazon to be most egregious, but that union organizers have to salt the process tells me again that unions are at the limit of their usefulness.
Okay, this article is about a bunch of "elite" do-gooders making themselves feel better by exploiting working class people. See the earlier comments about union organizers in coal country regarding the exploitation.
The college kid activists are just there to get high paying union jobs. They don't care about the workers any more than Amazon does. The difference is that Amazon actually pays the line workers whereas the union bosses will take their dues and tell them how hard they're working for them.
Yeah, the comments from the union people make it pretty clear that their purpose is to recruit / arm-twist the workers into a political movement. They only care about the issues of the actual workers to the extent that they are useful as political cudgels; the other issues will be ignored. The most likely outcome of this is that either the fulfullment centers move to Mexico, or the jobs are replaced with automation.
In their own words, the goal is a bold socialist future for everyone 🤷♂️ pretty straightforward
Unions are big business. The "socialist" union bosses get rich off unions. They have fat salaries and that is not counting how much they can skim of the union treasury.
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/big-labor-slams-ceo-pay-while-ignoring-fat-salaries-for-union-bosses/
In the 19th and 20th century the unions had knee cap breakers to intimidate anyone who criticized them or stood in their way.
Tammy Faye Baker went in for a face lift and when they took off her makeup, they found Jimmy Hoffa.
I understand all of that madness better in the context of coal miner unions where the bosses would literally kill them without recourse etc... But warehouse workers? Starbucks employees? These are not jobs where you put your life on the line every day
"But they made me actually do work. For eight hours. In a row!"
Yep. That's the usual complaint that causes union efforts. No breaks.
For every union kneecapper, I'll give you two employer Pinkertons and state Militiamen who shot to death laborers daring to ask for humane working conditions. Both sides have abuses, but in large, unions are a necessary counterweight to the brutality of some work places.
The Pinkertons or the militia haven't been used to break a strikes in almost 100 years but the unions have been beating people and killing them for years. About thirty years ago the president of the coal miners union and his family were murdered by the guy he beat out in the election for union president. I used to know their names but they elude me now. I know that's weird to remember that crap but it is how I am wired. I will never remember the names of people I meet but historical tidbits glom on to me.
Also, think of Jimmy Hoffa. He worked his way up in the Teamsters Union with an ax handle in his hand. He was a gangster thug.
His name? Your good friend and CIA operative Curt Muse who was in Prison Moderno.
Did you read the article? The salts admit to wanting a socialist world run in communism. "Everyone whining" about this younger generation being on the socialist..." is not a whine, it is restatement of the words coming out of their mouths from quotes in the article.
I agree that unions are a necessary counterweight to the otherwise-unilateral power of employers to make workers dance to any tune no matter how low the pay or onerous the working conditions. Yes, unions have drawbacks and corruption. So do employers. Both are still necessary to make capitalism--capital AND labor, not just capital--work well.
Our younglings should be experts in money, finances, work life, and economics before they're out of grade school, in my opinion. Not the mathematical theory stuff, but how things work in the real world and how it will affect them as citizens.
I thought Hoffa was buried under the pitcher's mound in Yankee Stadium? Or was it the Meadowlands?
No, it was under Tammy's makeup. It was a well kept secret.
I used to have one of those T-shirts with the smudged makeup all over the front which said, "I ran into Tammy Faye at the mall".
The Mythbusters actually looked for him there and didn't find anything.
Meadownlands...The trash dump for metropolitan New York.
I don't know why they would take him all the way to New York? The Ren Cen was being built at that time.
And this was the money quote:
"It’s not a great surprise that twenty- and thirty-somethings—who came of age in the wake [and Woke] of the housing and financial crises, graduated with unprecedented debt into the so-called gig economy, and are less likely than older generations to marry or own real-estate—are ripe for organizing."
So they feel slighted and wallow in self-pity simply due to when they were born. Entitled to some form of reparations or other Marxist redistribution scheme because they chose to attend an elitist private school to party at for 4 years, then suddenly found themselves in the real world with a useless degree in some contrived grievance "study" and six figures in debt. "Would you like fries with that?"
A little humility and appreciation for delayed gratification might go a long way with the I Want It All And I Want It Now generations.
You are forgetting the part about the helicopter parent that co-opted any unstructured play time.
We hosted a friend's daughter and her Brazilian exchange-student friend for a long (5-day) weekend back in the 'early '90's. The saddest thing that I had ever heard came when she mentioned over a cook-out dinner that this 5-days were her vacation as her (very affluent and successful parents) had the rest of her summer programmed.
One extreme or the other, right? Either parents micromanage every minute of their children's lives (usually with a helmet, knee, and elbow pads mandated) or they completely ignore them to "discover life on their own." What ever happened to normal, rational parenting?
Then again I couldn't imagine trying to raise children in the TikTok/Instragram, 15-second attention span, over-medicated Generation Rx culture of today.
Plus I an gonna go out on a limb and guess the ones quoted here do not have that debt anyway. Rather it sounds like they were recruited/indoctrinated in college.
Every story is different, no doubt. I'm just particularly incensed at those with massive debt who constantly spew ignorant invective at the entirety of those of Western European dissent ("Colonialist oppressors!") along with our nation as a whole, including those who fought and died for it, and yet expect us to pick up the tab for their unfortunate choice of miseducation and misdirection.
Generation Z -- the Z stands for Zero accountability.
I agree.
Zoom in on Smalls’ jacket. It says: “Eat the rich”. That’s all you need to know. They may call themselves DSA, but they are extremists. The goal is not Socialism with a Human Face attempted during Prague Spring. True, young people are expected to be rebellious. But I wish the fools took history courses along with gender and race studies. The world has already been there and done that with disastrous results in human suffering and death.
So up front people don't seem to see or believe it...what is that called?
This is basic "community organizing" theory. Find something that unifies people, then redirect their energy into your political agenda.
The activists are more interested in the money that the unions collect so that they can fund their latest "progressive" venture without too many people crying foul.
The history of the “workers’ movement” is permanently infested with righteous “intellectuals” who pretend to know what’s best for the workers. Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky - all were highly educated people who never worked in a factory but had “great ideas” about what workers should do, eventually creating hell on earth for everybody including “the working class”. In today’s world, where young educated kids are desperately seeking meaning for their super-abundant, totally cushioned life, “activism” has metastized into a real poison for the society.
If these young and arrogant activists were anywhere near as educated as they like to believe they are they would be aware of the true history of Marxism and its derivatives. Not only its perfect record of failure to deliver on any of its promised goals but also of the ever-expanding body count left its wake.
Technically they are indeed educated although it sounds more like indoctrinated. But intelligent? Likely not so much I fear.
It's much more a lack of critical thinking skills than raw intelligence, IMHO. They have been brainwashed into a collective where independent thought is verboten and unquestioning fealty to the official narrative is the primary directive. Non-compliance is to literally risk everything. Even the smartest people can be co-opted into a state of blissful ignorance.
More fundamentally, it comes down strength of character. God gave you a brain but it's up to you whether to use it or place it aside and "go along to get along".
In reading your comment, the question of who or what their fealty is based on came to mind. Who's driving the bus?
I agree. Free will doesn't matter much if you surrender it.
The concepts of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, union organizers, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Mussolini, and/or Hitler are intoxicating to those that are lacking the shiny object that these guiding lights may have on offer, their achievability notwithstanding.
The Cultural Revolution was far more repression than change.
In terms of raping consumers, unions have now been greatly surpassed by the college-‘educated’, interference class, Zoom call, Human Resources DEI parasites; but unions are still an incredible net detriment to society.
The main problem with jacking up costs at Amazon is that we are simultaneously opening the border and emptying the prisons and handcuffing law enforcement so physical stores will continue disappearing.
It's odd for a conservative to disagree with your statement, but I will...
Unions have brought about plenty of benefits to the working classes, their having been part of the engine that pulled many from the lower rails of society onto the economy's main lines that dominated the last half of the 20th Century. The unions brought the possibilities of economic stability, higher education, and social mobility to those determined to give themselves, their children, and their grandchildren better lives. The unions were a powerful partner in the post-war era.
The problems come with institutionalizing unions as business operations in and of themselves. The moment the emphasis of the movement shifts from improving the lot of the labor force to the health and welfare of the union, they lose a large degree of legitimacy and take on the mantel of political actors extracting dues ostensibly for one purpose and using proceeds for another.
It is there where the union and I part company.
L.K. I think you actually have it exactly right. The once good purpose of unions has been corrupted and now they've been absorbed by political factions effectively rendering them enemies of the republic we're supposed to be.
Unions have helped in the same way that shooting people in the face has helped. If you keep shooting people in the face after WW2 is over then it’s a problem.
Is it any wonder why the Chinese manufacturing sector is kicking our ass? They have none of these encumbrances on the productivity of their workforce. If their workers are displeased they are perfectly free to jump out of the factory window. The definition of a good company to work at in China is one with suicide safety nets outside the building. Lesser ones don't even bother.
I have had that thought about the disappearance of physical stores as well. Once we are strictly online full control will be so easy to accomplish.
Well Said. And I speak as a Former (low level) union official. Something so many people don't understand when it comes to working 'You Get What You Pay For". Pay poorly, get poor workers.
Lets take Temp. workers, and I spent A Lot of time around them (BTW that's how a lot of plants find their permanent workers) the term "as useful as tits on a boar" comes to mind.
We used to be called Summer Help, as in “summer help, summer not”
> They don't care about the workers any more than Amazon does.
Such mind-reading skills! The robber barons said the same thing in 1900 to the wretches the sent down the coal mines: "Don't unionize men, they are as utterly greedy and immoral as I am."
So? That just means both unions and owners are greedy and do nothing for the workers. At least ownership does not pretend otherwise. There is nothing so egregious as providing false hope. If workers want to do well they should vote smart.
Nothing has ever helped working people more effectively than collective bargaining. Even when unions are corrupt, they have to 'steal for you before they can steal from you' as the saying goes. I was a shop steward for three years, I know what can go wrong with unions but I also know they are the best tool labor has. As we see, when unions are weak, the plutocrats vacuum up almost everything.
I respect your opinion but at this point it is just another type of bureaucracy and like any bureaucracy it is only as good as the individual member.
How do you know they don't care about them? It seems as if the workers wanted the union.
By 500 votes. After that high end salting. In one venue.
Yeah...ok. 500 votes. That's a squeaker. You just learned the term "salting" today.
I get it. Those with more (i.e. "high end") helping those with less to start a union they want...is bad. In reality, the are just as shitty of a person as you are and are just doing "performative wokeness" for secret, nefarious means.
"Salting" is what unions use to cover the true intent of their actions.
It's duplicitous to its core.
You just learned that term todat.
Oh, yes, Lynne. I'm sure they're doing that all over the country. Because there's absolutely no reason Amazon warehouse workers could legitimately want a union.
True intent? Let me guess. Critical Race Theory? Go shoot up some Bud Light, you'll feel better.
No...I learned that term back in high-school earth science when we were taught how cultured pearls are started. That was some sixty-five years ago...longer ago than you likely have been alive...if that is what they call your condition.
Typical. Boring and ill-informed.
Oh...I'm sorry. 500 is close?
Perfectly informed.
Don't be upset that people with college-degrees and means decided to help workers who wanted a union, Lynne. I'm sure it was all just for show.
I was a Teamster for a couple of years. The only satisfaction I got out of it was voting against Jimmy Hoffa Jr. The whole thing was a scam. I was glad when I quit.
The only difference between company bosses and union bosses is that the company bosses are creating work while the union bosses are simply parasites wanting to suck some of the wages paid to employees while creating nothing at all.
Most of the guys their just want to hook up.
well, these are "fulfilment" centers ...
Ha. My wife made me delete it. I still believe it to be true.
Would love for this article to be a wake up call to readers to reconsider their buying habits and need for instant gratification for cheap goods from China. I know that shopping locally and from neighborhood merchants generally costs more, but the alternative is hollowed out communities with no commerce, no vibrancy and no places to gather. Also, a small business owner assumes great risk by going at it on their own: their chances for failure are higher than for success, and the taxes, levies and fees municipal governments force them to pay are crushing. I am always amazed people take the risk, but am highly appreciative that they do.
It's unfortunate Amazon devalues its workers so much that they're willing and able to replace their entire warehouse workforce every few months. Our constant purchases from Amazon are partly responsible for this attitude. And do we really need next day delivery? Would waiting a couple of days possibly lessen the unrealistic expectations and burdens on these workers?
I'm guilty of shopping from Amazon and I try to shop local merchants, however, crime has played a huge role in consumers shopping online. I purchase drug store toiletries from Amazon because my local Walgreens has empty shelves and what is there, is under plexiglass. The staffing in retail is minimal because no one wants to risk getting assaulted even if they don't resist.
We better start taking the crime situation seriously; we're already a banana republic and I don't mean the store.
So ironic, the progressive delirium that encourages retail theft as a way of life (“reparations” of some sort) simultaneously bemoans the rise of Amazon, the last seller standing when every local retail store is shuttered due to excessive “loss”.
Back in 2021, actress and former gubernatorial candidate, Cynthia Nixon-one of the wokest of the woke-was lambasted for her pro-shoplifting stance. The hypocrisy is just as rampant as the looting.
To me it is worse. I do not agree with the looting but I can at least recognize the excuses therefor. The hypocrit class should know better.
Cynthia is an absolute loon!
Walmart is pulling about half of its stores out of Chicago. I wonder why?
The tragedy is the fact that jobs are being eliminated for people of all ages; mostly, folks who really need the work. Last summer we went to a Walmart in NJ and as a city girl, I was astounded not only by the size, but by the fact that so many seniors worked there. The fact that crime is the cause of unemployment is an indictment of progressive politics. Rahm Emmanuel, Lori Lightfoot and the newly elected mayor, Brandon Johnson are destroyers of cities. Oprah Winfrey made her billionaire fortune largely from getting her start and her show based in Chicago. Has she said anything about what is going on there?
The Progressives are sleeping with Amazon that’s the scam and we all appear to be falling for it
Yep, the nutty point that many on this chain seem to be making is that I should shut up, get in my car, drive to some mall somewhere, get completely ignored by some snot nose with blue hair, find out my shoe size is not in stock but that it can be ordered, have to drive back home and yep order on Amazon.
One way to take the crime wave seriously is to vote the Democrats out of office, especially the DAs, mayors and governors. look at the cities and states with the highest murder rates. They are run by Democrats. And the morons in the cities and states keep voting these left wing clowns back into office. look at Chicago. They just vote a defund the police mayor.
Chicago has one of the highest murder rates in the nation and these idiots voted in a guy that wants to defund the police. Stupid is as stupid does.
There is no hope for Chicago. They will continue to get what they voted for.
I just looked up the states with the highest murder rates per capita. They're: Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Missouri, and Arkansas. All Southern deep red states.
Cities with the highest murder rates. Houston has a Dem mayor. New Orleans has had a Dem mayors for years. Atlanta has had Dem mayors since 1879. Memphis, Tn has a Dem mayor. Jackson, Mississippi has had democrat mayors for years.
All run by Democrats:
Forbes Magazine,
10 Most Dangerous Cities in the US (#1 is the highest cost of crime)
St. Louis, Missouri
Jackson, Mississippi
Detroit, Michigan
New Orleans, Louisiana
Baltimore, Maryland
Memphis, Tennessee
Cleveland, Ohio
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Kansas City, Missouri
Shreveport, Louisiana
My wager, without looking it up, is those numbers are driven driven by cities with blue leadership. I can testify that Austin is atrocious. Also modern crime stats are atrocious as they too are politicized. Maybe weaponized.
You are right Lynne. See my post.
Same, but when I lived on the west coast package theft was also a big thing so sometimes you can't win either way.
As much as I like to shop locally, living in the city, with our busy lifestyle, long commute, few people can afford the time to shop locally, and get their cars broken into by the mass of homelessness. When I leave my house during the weekend, the last thing in my mind is to shop locally. My often escape away from the city
This is perfectly understandable.
Buying toiletries from Amazon is what funds the crime wave. Those toiletries were stolen from the retail outlets, and sold to a fencing operator who resells them on Amazon.
Exactly and it is my understanding that Amazon turns a blind eye to the sourcing of its 3rd party suppliers.
Only very rich people can afford to be that idealistic and follow slogans like “buy American”. The rest are struggling and have to think about making ends meet. And that’s not how free market economy works. Actually, it is the opposite of how it works. You will never have enough people to buy significantly more expensive goods to turn the tide. It is expensive AND inconvenient. Sorry to rain on your parade, just being realistic. A lot has to happen in order for us to become independent from China.
Unfortunately, it's not just local or Amazon. The products are the same (from China), but you probably won't be able to find what you need anyway, because the concept of carrying inventory is out and carrying things Amazon carries is less profitable.
Yeah, that's the problem... most of what I buy from Amazon, or other online vendors, is simply not available locally.
Jenn
I wish more people were as smart as you. A former parish priest encouraged us to buy local 9 years ago. It is common sense. If you want your community to thrive, or even survive, you have to support businesses in your community.
My son (21) works for Amazon and they're actually a good place to work. He got a job in the warehouse during the plandemic and has steadily been able to move up and now does maintenance on their automated equipment; no college degree and no student loan payments and makes $85K/yr. That Amazon has so much turnover speaks - by and large, there are always outliers and exceptions - more about the lazy, self-entitled "workers" our society has been churning out for decades. These kids really bought into the "work smarter, not harder" and think that means they don't need to expend any effort.
If EVERY company had high turnover that would support your idea that workers are lazy and self-entitled but there are lots of companies where people stay for a long time. Some work environments are better than others. If you're going to give 1/3 of your life to work, it may as well be in as good a place as possible.
Have you been to a McDonald's lately? Of course there is high turnover in entry level jobs which is what is being talked about unionizing. Amazon gets a bad rap because 1) they're huge and 2) their employees have to work all day; there is no lunch rush and then slack time. But I agree with your premise that people should work in "as good a place as possible" - learn a trade (or college with a good major) and don't stay stuck on the bottom rung of the economic ladder.
I have avoided buying from Amazon for a long time for these reasons.
My sister was a Product Manager there and I can tell you the college class gets overworked as much as the factory workers. My sister would regularly be triple-booked in meetings the entire day, attending one while monitoring the chat messages on another. Impossible schedule to maintain, and don't even think about getting pregnant!
Amazon's employment model is based on making big offers to temporary workers who get overworked until they quit. The ones who don't are the valuable work addicts.
What I'm missing from the article and every other on unionization efforts, is why the warehouse workers aren't interested, when unionization seems like an obvious choice?
I wondered the same thing. Why was the vote so close ? Why did so many other sites reject the union? As a former union officer at the local level, have mixed feelings about unions. But it would seem that a union would benefit the workers in those Amazon warehouses. So why do the workers resist organization? I'd love to hear from Amazon workers who voted against unionization.
Thanks for posting this. It's helped me to see my own hypocrisy on this. I am an admitted Amazon addict, yet I supposedly care about my local community and fair pay and wages. I'm definitely not living up to my values here. I have a few things I was going to order on Amazon today and I'm going to check in with our local hardware store first.
Thank you. It is one of those small acts of kindness things.
If I could find products made in America or even in Europe, I would buy them but most do not exist or are exorbitantly expensive. Hence I buy from Amazon or Walmart but I don't need next day delivery.
I love Amazon.
Yes! All of this!
Agree, I stopped buying Amazon >2 years ago, and I’m alive to tell.
Unions are no more then a right arm to the democratic party. It is a way for everyone to fall in line with their policies and crazy "woke" agendas. With 10 years under my belt at Starbucks I was scratching my head thinking"what more could they get from a union". The benefits have been amazing. Healthcare, tuition at ASU, LYRA mental health counseling, Hardship $ in the event of a catastrophic event in your life, conscientious workmans comp in the event of a workplace injury, life insurance, paid parental leave for dad as well as mom, monetary help with adoption, the list goes on and on. When all the benefits are taken advantage of at Starbucks the pay then becomes amazing. Bernie Sanders badgered Howard Schultz for hours concerning what liberals have said was an effort to block union organizing at Starbucks when in reality the company was just working hard to make sure these young adults knew what would happen when they formed a union. Bernie Sanders and his wife are worth MILLIONS and yet he stood in front of Howard Schultz and told him basically that he didn't have the right to be a millionaire. Howard Schultz built his dream from the ground up and employs over 160,000 people in the US. As for me, I stand with Starbucks and will be there until noon on the day of my funeral. :)
Yes and Schultz built a company to earn his millions. What, exactly did Bernie do to earn his? 🤔
I am always suspicious of millionaire communists and don't be fooled Benie is a communist loved by the Democrats. Communism is a bloody brutal system and Bernie loves and promotes it. The man is an idiot but a dangerous idiot.
What is the source that Bernie Sanders is worth "millions." I just looked up his net worth and most web sites put it around $500K, which isn't that much
Are you considering his 3 homes valued over $2mm? Tough to get loans on 3 homes on a senator’s salary.
Look deeper, you will find it!
His wife's is 1.5 million according to my cursory check. Nice try.
They always hide it by having the money in the name of a family member. Oldest trick in the book
Took a dive to Hilary.
Kiss arse.
This is good to know about Starbucks.
Bernie and the rest of those knuckleheads are a disgrace and way out of their realm when debating Howard Schultz. Go watch the YouTubes. The politicians are a joke.
So kids from the wealthy families are trying what has failed many times in the past - Soviet Union,Eastern Europe, Cuba etc.
"We can have the revolution we deserve, and we can win a better world, a free socialist world for everyone,” Medina wrote.
There is not one example of a "free" socialist world being successful and good for the people.
AOC and her pals in congress belong to the DSA (Democratic Socialists of America). There is not now nor ever will be a democratic socialist country. The socialist countries like China, Cuba and North Korea are all bloody dictatorships.
Apparently none of them took a history class in their Uber expensive colleges. Or they got revisionist history…..
If the family is able to pay $82k a year for college, the kid already lives under communism lol
Wesleyan and Oberlin grads. From entitled rich families. Did I miss the part about these young ladies agreeing to be disinherited and not receiving any stipends from mom and dad so that they truly are in the same boat as their coworkers . If they have done so, I salute them. I also could not help but draw comparisons to another altruist whose folks teach at Stanford law school.
Unionization will encourage Bezos to automate more aspects of Amazon, reducing the number of jobs. I would guess that most of these jobs are summer or short term jobs in any case.
Unions can serve a good function, but their track record is awful. Corruption abounds. They should be held to the same scrutiny as other groups in terms of transparency and honest disclosure to the union members and the public.
I don't know what exactly caused Amazon to lay off tens of thousands of workers recently, but maybe the upper managers have been alerted to the salts. Not that these rich socialists can foresee entire warehouses shutting down or becoming fully automated.
Ever notice the words "rich socialists" seem to go together? Not saying All Socialists are Rich, just saying they seem to go together.
Companies overhired during the pandemic and are now scaling back. They still have more employees than they did before even after the current layoffs.
Oh, no! Not facts again!
Thee is something else to keep in mind management (Large Company's) likes Unionization. Because they only have to negotiate 1 contact, instead of contacts with multiple workers.
I find it disingenuous the amazon workers “have no choice.” The free market operates for both employers and employees. If people refuse to work for Amazon, they will raise their wages. As long as they have plenty of employees, things will likely stay the same. “Work related injuries” such as “tendinitis” and “disc degeneration.” Hmm, that used to be considered aging... The fact that these union organizers are all socialists says it all.
I was wondering how that is any different from a construction job or any other manual labor. Seems like young people should be able to handle it, physically.
How is that different from a UPS Driver? We all make our choices, no one forces anyone to stay in a particular job.
Reading the article, it highlights to me why jobs and population are leaving New York. The population movements from the coasts to the South and Southwest is among the most significant demographic trends. I foresee a time when the Northeast will be left with jobs for academics, government regulators, activist groups and union organizing. Unfortunately, socialism only works until you run out of people to pay for it.
Famous quote by Margaret Thatcher:
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
That is the pesky little fact our young friends at Democratic Socialists have not factored into the equation.
But, "It will never happen to them, they are wise beyond their years." Obviously fact and fantasy have never collided in their lives.
Now Cynthia they are going to use crypto currency and thus be saved. 😉
That could be, I have no idea how that works.
The reason people leave an area are complex. Most people who leave the Northeast are leaving when they retire to warmer states with lower real estate values. Too high real estate values are the #1 reason people leave California, not ideology.
Median Household Income:
California $81,500
New York $72,900
Massachusetts $86,500
New Jersey $88,500
As opposed to:
Florida $59,700
Texas $67,400
Alabama $56,900
Seems "socialism" produces higher salaries, right?
California has the most unbalanced income distribution of any state. There are the IT billionaires and their $300k tech workers, and the $5/hr farm workers. CA has the highest percentage of poor people of any state. People leave because the 12% state tax is terrible and the IT sector has driven up housing beyond the middle class. And that's not even factoring in all the poop on the sidewalks and crime. And the state treasury is essentially bankrupt. What once was a great state (60's 70's) has become a hell-hole under Donkey rule.
You proud of that?
Sounds like you speak from personal experience BT.
Dave, the average arrival here in Dallas from California is 32 wanting to buy a house. I agree it is not about ideology. I would add it is the consequences of ideology. Dallas and Houston counties with 10 million population issued significantly more new housing permits in 2022 than California with 39.0 million. The new arrivals are voting overwhelming Republican for what it is worth.
I left CA because of the disastrous politics (Newsom), the outrageous taxes being wasted on non-existent masks, unemployment fraud, and invisible bullet trains, and because voting Republican there was akin to spitting into the wind.
No it seems that wealth is extracted from productive sectors of the economy into cities that specialize in finance, advertising, entertainment, and lifestyle douchiness. The fortune of Wall Street is built on the workers of America. The glitz of Hollywood is parasitic on the minds and wallets of the youth being sold destructive music and television
I'm no big fan of Wall Street nor Hollywood (I have lived in both cities, have you?), but median statistics means half higher and half lower and is not affected by extreme salaries like "average." If you ask most folks, they would say it is better to make $85,000 rather than $65,000. The vast majority of folks don't work in finance, advertising, nor entertainment.
But, those that do aren't some evil cadre to most people either.
Do the stats you present above account for cost of living expenses? It’s the net amount that is important. I would take lower income (salary) if my net was higher.
Cost of living is highly variable depending on individual preference. You want to live rural or in a city or suburb? You shop a Walmart or local? You drive new cars or slightly used cars or really used cars. The cost of buying new or used cars are essentially the same (maybe some variance on whether you need AWD, etc.) Cost of groceries are pretty standard. Cost of health care pretty much the same. Real Estate is highly variable. Taxes end up being pretty close when you add all of it in. Gas is variable depending mostly on taxes. Local farmers markets are variable. Etc.
Problem is, of course, jobs. Rural areas lack jobs. Cities have lots of jobs. And of course cost of real estate. You can buy the same house for 50% in Texas than California and 75% in the Northeast.
Every economic metric not tied to growth favors the northeast over the southeast. Poverty, Median Household Income, School outcomes (HS graduates, college graduates, test scores, etc.) favor the Northeast. The NE also pays more for their schools. People tend to like the outcomes more than the cost. You/others might be different?
More to the point of the post, union members make 18% more than non-union members for similar work. Three issues keep the northeast metrics better. #1 higher percentage of union members. #2 Higher percentage of Catholics (which divorce less than any other religion; Evangelicals divorce more than any other religion). Divorce is very destabilizing and causes poorer economic outlook. #3 More educated work force.
I try not to simplify these issues, they are complex and encompass our economy as is changes and grows.
All these metrics are well known and go back for generations. Ideologues (right or left) don't like to deal with facts. And there are many reasons not to live in the northeast nor be a union worker. Florida is a state I know well and has a boom/bust history which IMO will continue. A lot of Florida issues are covered up by the amount of retirees that end up in Florida. Texas historically has a boom/bust cycle generally tied to the oil business. I hope that with the current influx we won't see as much bust as is historical for Texas.
As an aside, I know several older union carpenters that head to Florida in the winter, find work making their usual union wages (without the benefits of course) because well off people will pay them more than twice the local carpenters knowing they will get the work done well and in a timely manner. The apprenticeship programs for unions in the trades is very underestimated in helping people find well paid and satisfying work. We, as a country, should lean into it more.
I agree that preferences and culture do create complexity. But you did present median household income numbers for various states without presenting median cost of living numbers for those same states. I think that your data is incomplete and doesn’t necessarily support the conclusion that unionization results in people that are better off (or better trained or more highly skilled for that matter). I don’t know the answer, which is why I asked the question. If you have the data, please provide a link. Thanks!
I make considerably more in the northeast than I'd make in the south or southwest. Even after taxes and housing, it's still more and most recreation costs the same no matter where you live.
When I lived in NYC it was expensive as hell, but I didn't need a car which saved me a ton of money.
At least in the northeast you can somewhat SEE what you get for your money, especially the mostly good to excellent schools and safe communities. We've had one murder in the past 50 years. California, where I've also lived, is a bit iffier because the taxes are higher but the schools aren't great, the safety isn't that great, etc.
You cannot reasonable assess what is a good salary without factoring in cost of living.
Firstly, none of those places are genuinely socialist.
Secondly, purchasing power is more important than raw salary, so compare those places again in terms of post-tax takehome pay relative to local purchasing power. Despite higher salaries, California and Massachusetts are two of the most unaffordable states in the union.
I just put that in to needle the right wing ideologues who label everything socialist.
Most of the metrics on most affordable are dominated by average RE values. And the states that generally come out on top are midwest states with a large rural population. N Dakota, S Dakota, Iowa, Indiana, Michigan, etc. And that metric really is all about low RE values, which are low because either lack of jobs and/or people just don't want to live there. The most expensive states are Hawaii, NY (because of NYC) and Mass. Wages are really high in Honolulu, NYC and Boston to account for that. You generally get what you pay for in this world, and apparently there are plenty of people who like to live in those areas so feel they are getting a good deal. Having spent a large part of my life living in Florida, I have seen the regular complaints from those moving into Florida when they realize that they aren't going to get what they are use to in terms of services. Seen the same thing lately here in New Hampshire when all the Covid refugees moved up here from NYC and Boston. How people choose to live is always interesting to me. I went from a high crime city in Florida to a no-crime area of New Hampshire and find it refreshing and even entertaining (half the people never lock their doors in my town) when visitors come and realize we don't always lock our doors and cars!
Isn’t the cost of living more expensive in those socialist states?
What is most upsetting is when the cost of living is not eqalling the quality of life. If high taxes meant better schools, great police and fire service, along with things like clean and efficient transit and good roads, and overall well maintained infrastructure then it would be well worth the cost.
I'm in the NYC suburbs and the schools are excellent, as are the police and fire. Transit is good for going to/from NYC but not as great locally. The infrastructure is well maintained--decent streets, sidewalks, lighting, snow plows quickly after a storm, etc.
In your location, tax = value which is really great.
Also who knows the relative difference in average hours worked between the households in these states. Could be more single breadwinner families in the south (which would match up with their higher fertility rates), or it could be the northeasterners are overworked.
Thanks for this, Dave. Also, the Baby Boom is retiring in masses, and where do cold-weather-state people retire? To warm-weather states with (presumably) lower taxes. That's primarily why Florida, Texas, Arizona, Tennessee, et al are benefitting: Boomers are retiring to nicer weather.
Along with those higher wages in CA go sky high housing prices, gas tax of $1.08 per gallon when other states charge $.29 per gallon tax, not to mention crazies trying to tax miles driven in certain areas, crazies trying to tax the money in the bank, etc. Socialism produces a reduced quality of life as well.
And Wall Street and its affiliated financial services machinery as it has been since pre-Civil War but thoroughly entrenched and enriched there post-Civil War.
Wesleyan, Oberlin, Marymount Manhattan. That's all the information I need from this article.
As with all things, the superior elites know what’s best for the inferior working class who are too ignorant to make decisions that they have to live with.
Right?!? If I were working at Amazon and these salts came in to “save” me, I’d feel like it was awfully condescending.
Well it took awhile and only won by 500 votes.
That was exactly my thought as I was reading this. Just another example of elites controlling the peasants.
God save us from over-educated Rich kids. I'm sure they mean well but so did all the union organizers that invaded the South and Appalachia a few decades ago. Those organizers are now doctors and lawyers up north raising happy little country club families and the people they left behind are fentanyl addicts and unemployed as they watch their jobs go overseas. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and I wish these activists would realize that companies cannot pay off the extortion money to the government to fund all our social programs and at the same time pay high wages. In some cases such as Amazon unionization is probably necessary to force the company to be humane but they are a rare extreme example.
Interesting. When people refer to millennials, they're "lazy and not wanting to work" but when referring to literal drug addicts who choose to stay in a depressed place rather than learning a new skill, they're just "the people left behind."
More than once in my life, I've had jobs that became obsolete as technology advanced. I learned to do something else. What's stopping the people in the South and Appalachia from doing the same?
The fentanyl addiction. Your ready defense of the anything but do-gooders and lack of empathy is stunning. These people in "the South and Appalachia" have been left behind by modern life. If they moved to your neck of the woods they would be the homeless.
Learn to code? I thought we were past that but nonetheless I will try to explain succinctly since this is not the forum for it. The baby boomer Elites of this world did two things during their reign. One was to globalize the world and the other was to financialize everything in america, siphoning off the financial cream for themselves and leaving companies and people in mountains of debt. Doing those two things simultaneously made them wealthy beyond belief and gave them an elite status that they were seeking but it also betrayed their fellow countrymen and left a lot of people behind. People that would have been just fine had America operated under the principles of the Elite Boomers parents. Besides learn to code is no longer an option since AI is going to take those jobs as well and I'm wondering if everyone will be so dismissive once White Collar college educated people start losing their homes and jobs and turn to fentanyl supplied by China which by the way still has favored member trading status with the United States. Those dismissive of the South's poor towns and factories and those in Appalachia need to consider the old adage..." there but for the grace of God go I ..." Or more in the modern context ..."winter is coming."
there’s Jeff, then the robots, and then the rest of the humans that work there way down below.” --- Wait, isn't Jeff one of the darling liberal people with more money than many corporations? Him, Suckenburg, Gates, Kerry, Gore, and others. Thought they were the darlings of the liberal elite, especially during campaign finance season? Much like the very rich actors DeCrapo, they talk a good game but in reality live the life they believe only they deserve.
Does this mean out of touch and wanting utopia rich kids at least learning real work is not fun and corporations will just use you. Always been that way and unlikely to change. But the rich kids who already have money in their future from Mom and Dad pretend to care for their glory. It’s not a great surprise that twenty- and thirty-somethings—who came of age in the wake of the housing and financial crises, graduated with unprecedented debt into the so-called gig economy, and are less likely than older generations to marry or own real-estate—are ripe for organizing. --- News here! Housing and financial issues have always been here and this is not new to this generation. I grew up with them as did most people I know, so you are not special in this problem. Should Amazon be rained in? Yes. They suck at using recycled goods and do destroy local businesses, much like Walmart and Costco. But the rich get to pay off the local, state and federal government. The Feds by the corrupt politicians like AOC, Bernie, and yes the repubs also. The electors need to become more educated on candidates but not likely with the need to spend millions on a Congressional seat that pays about $250K a year.
For the kids with debt. Well maybe don't attend colleges that drive your debt up. Try using Junior College then the 4 year college to complete. Maybe get a degree that actually has value. How about a good trade school. Amazon warehouse probably does suck. But be a plumber digging up pip[es in the winter, or the heating person working outside to fix your system. How about the electrical line-people who work through natural weather disasters? Most of these salts had Mommy and Daddy pay for their socialist education. To me they have little to no credibility.
Very well put.
And one day these kids will grow up and learn what everyone learns, if they have any sense. Socialism doesn't make money. It does not create wealth. It just redistributes, which is all well and good up to a point, but someone has to make the stuff to redistribute. The only sustainable society makes money, and redistributes some of it, but accepts that in order to do so there must be those that give and those that receive, ie some financial inequality. The hard part is finding the right balance. America has had a forty year run now of wildly successful creation, but nowhere near enough redistribution. The danger is that idealistic kids like these will get "the revolution they [think] they deserve" and destroy the means to make wealth. I grew up in post-war socialist Britain. Nationalised railways, road haulage, post office, telephones, gas, electricity, steel, coal, water ultilities, healthcare, education. Nice in some ways, awful in others. Powerful unions destroyed those industries and caused stagflation. Industrial disease, we called it. Maggie Thatcher's medicine tasted bitter, but she was proven right. Sadly though, we don't learn from the past and are now about to repeat the cycle.
AOC explicitly tells her followers that wealth comes from the government and that's why they need to take over to redistribute it more fairly. They don't understand the concept of productive work.
They are going to destroy the golen-egg laying goose and replace it with a plantation system.
Six weeks after I started my professional career, the unionized clerical workers went on strike for over a year. As a newly minted engineer, myself and five or so similarly situated people were tasked with assuming the work of a crew of about 12 strikers.
In about 8 weeks we had cleared their workload, a two foot tall stack of shop problems. Why? By union agreement each document they touched required a minimum of two hours to process, so 4 per day maximum. As salaried employees, we had no such restriction. If a task took an hour or five minutes, we’d move on to the next one.
This has soured me to unions for over 40 years. Don’t get me wrong…unions have contributed greatly to achieve benefits such as a 40 hour work week, vacation, holiday, and sick time, and worker safety. Yes…I find some of the conditions at Amazon to be most egregious, but that union organizers have to salt the process tells me again that unions are at the limit of their usefulness.
What an unabashedly biased article. Wow. How mainstream. With photo ops for Bernie and Ortazio-Cortez thrown in.
Not liking this.
Sometimes you have to see the crap on the sidewalk to remind you not to step in it.
The article definitely has a point of view. It rings true to me. Instead of criticizing it why not give legitimate counters to it.
Okay, this article is about a bunch of "elite" do-gooders making themselves feel better by exploiting working class people. See the earlier comments about union organizers in coal country regarding the exploitation.
Parents spent a fortune on their kids’ education only to turn them into Useful Idiots in the service of a bankrupt ideology.
Working for the profits of one of the richest straight white men in the world, while they fail to unionize that man's workers.
Yes, the irony runs deep on many levels.