Prohibitionists like to blame legal cannabis for everything from rising crime to our national mental health dilemma. The truth is just the opposite, argues Katherine Mangu-Ward.
As psychiatrist and addiction specialist who treats teens and adults alike, a couple of thoughts. First, the passage of 'medical' marijuana legislation was premature and irresponsible, as there were so few high quality double blinded, randomly controlled studies to support use for such an array of illness as Arnold-Chiari syndrome, chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, and PTSD. And blessing by the states in effect touted the 'benignity' and benefits of marijuana, giving many recreational users the false sense it was safe, or at least not hazardous. Second, there are so little longitudinal studies on the effects of marijuana, a drug delivered in combusted vapors and containing many of the same carcinogens as tobacco, that the long term risks are unknown and undetermined: it took decades of research to validate the cause effect between cigarettes and COPD and lung and heart disease. Third, cannabis may not be associated with such serious acute effects as deaths due to DUI or domestic violence, but I have my share of patients who have divorced their husbands for spending every waking moment smoking pot and playing video games in the basement and high school student who drop out of extracurricular activities as smoking weed, whether alone in their bedroom or with friends in the park, becomes their reason d'etre.
There’s no issue of “lack of self control” when I it comes to marijuana. How many times do people smoke marijuana without becoming intoxicated? Essentially zero. That’s the point of using the drug. The problems that result from intoxication are difficult to exaggerate.
Great comment. I'll add some anecdotes/observations as a former pot-smoker and former drinker:
Go on reddit forums for AA or sobriety from alcohol, and you'll see lots of posts and comments from people with months, years, or decades of sobriety.
Go to a forum for marijuana addiction (r/leaves, for example) and you'll see post after post of smokers relapsing after four, five days, over and over again...
In person, I go to AA meetings as well as MA meetings. Much like online, IRL, the relapse rate for marijuana abuse is just much higher. I'd estimate that about 70% of our attendees in MA are chronic relapsers who have not found stability in their sobriety from marijuana. I'm ten years pot free, and aside from myself, our other community ringleader is 1.5 years pot free. After that, it's people stringing together a few months here and there...
I predict in the next ten years we are going to see a huge uptick in what I call MMD: Millennial Marijuana Divorce. We will also see an uptick in schizophrenia-esque diagnoses for chronic pot smokers.
That said, I believe the cat is out of the bag in terms of legalization/popularization/normalization of marijuana. I have no opinion on whether or not this is a good thing, all I can say confidently is that we have underestimated the negative externalities.
We would have seen all that doom from you drug warriors already, it's been a decade or two of legal use and substantial periods going back to the 70s of illegal use, despite harsh laws where every traffic stop could be a search and seizure operation.
But the sky didn't fall, 20 years out, the jury's in, and the prohibitionists like you called wolf many too many times to be credible. People ultimately discover the truth despite the propaganda that supported the old laws.
Also have some experience about being forced into 12 step probation programs by the legal system during prohibition for misdemeanor pot possession charge, now expunged.
Just let me say that alcohol, crack cocaine and heroin abusers are in a whole different category of "addicts", as similar as a lightning bug to lightening. At NA meetings, I had to sit though repetitive (overly?) dramatic confessions of stealing grandma's fur coat to buy smack, or when I came up here, there was a hit man on my trail...because addiction. The only thing I could compare it to at the time was Soviet dissidents being sent to mental hospitals as punishment for deviance.
That decision was made based on the lie that marijuana is harmless. It isn't. It is addictive and often leads to the use of other drugs. THC can cause psychotic episodes. In a certain number of users, weed use precipitates schizophrenia. It impairs driving and other activities requiring concentration. It also affects the body physically, leading to a greater chance of stroke or heart attack. I'm not for re-criminalization but, like other products, it should come with appropriate warnings - not with the false claim that it's benign.
Driving while impaired on ANYTHING--alcohol, marijuana and I'd even include cell phones--should be punished harshly. I'm sure heavy use also negatively affects the body, as does heavy use of alcohol, prescription drugs, sugar, salt, etc. All things in moderation and in their appropriate place and time.
Would I use weed while driving, or working, or before giving a presentation to a large audience. No. Would I use it when I'm on vacation sitting on a porch with some music playing and looking at the sunset. Probably.
Opiates are a physical addiction, as well as benzodiazepines, and alcohol. Which is why you can have an acute medical stabilization ( detox ) from those drugs.
To be clear (if that's possible) the 60's conversation was about the exploration of expanded consciousness, reconnection with the earth and universe, and the abandonment of the sterile capitalist plasticity. Then came November 22, 1963, the ascent of the MIC/CIA and all that has followed. Criminal finance then and criminal finance now wants two things. Access to uneducated throw away labor and access to all natural resources for personal exploitation and profit without consequence. Drug and alcohol addiction kills but again drug and alcohol addiction are symptoms of a failed social/economic environment. Christ on the Cross, Galileo under house arrest and Julian Assange in Belmarsh prison today speak to one end. The war isn't on drugs, the war is and has always been on consciousness. Human damage and a wounded American psyche resulting from a tyranny attempting the mass imposition of a polarizing hyperrealistic psyop (LIE) is the problem. The healing third is readily available. It's called the American Constitution.. It isn't capitalist or communist, "woke", "left" or "right". It is an entirely human oriented document outlining the framework for a healthy solutions based truth/fact based human reality.
Looking at 40 years in September. DON'T QUIT!! (You might like Edward F. Edinger's commentary on C.G. Jung's AION.
While I support you here I would like to add it's because of prohibition by the DEA that we don't have the studies. This was an omission in the opposing essay that really angers me.
As another addiction physician let me add that I have given professional educational lectures on this very topic many times to both patients in milieu community in a well-known residential treatment center, as well as for professional education credit to therapists and physicians. You (Alan) respectfully mention an old argument that often comes up that because cannabis is a Schedule 1 drug it is not available to researchers outside of a very limited, ergo, we “don’t have the studies”. True, true and unrelated: Big Cannabis has no desire to have such studies performed or to be brought into the mainstream of pharmaceuticals. This would potentially (read: likely) offer them up to increased scrutiny and oversight as well as pressure to bring cannabis-derived medications to market in the same manner as other pharmaceutical companies. To wit, out of some 5,000 chemical formulations (a.k.a potential medicines) only about 5 will make it to final trials and only about one will go to market. It takes about $1 billion and a decade to do so. Why would marijuana growers choose such a path when they are selling billions of dollars of product NOW and enjoying the platform of the relatively unregulated dispensary? It is essentially rhetorical because from a business perspective, they simply have no impulse to do so. It is clear that there is no significant push to reverse this trend, ergo such arguments remain in play, and conveniently so for the marijuana industry.
I think the issue of the failure of drug wars and legalization vs non-legalization are legitimate debates and respectfully offered here. What is not so much a debate is trying to normalize the usage of marijuana products as completely benign and the related attempts to minimize marijuana’s negative impacts on a great many individuals. This may be inconvenient to advocates, but marijuana is widely accepted as addictive, it has very negative effects upon many persons, especially adolescents (causing damage to natural pruning and creation of healthy neural pathways). Further, it is now accepted as causative of psychosis in adolescents (read: under age 25) as opposed to merely unmasking psychosis (and not that that matters to a family struggling with a psychotic adolescent…). I could go on, but the arguments scientifically are solid and grow each year, and this leaves the pro-pot camp left to trying hard to cherry-pick data out of a growing body of evidence.
We indeed accept legal alcohol, but it is highly regulated and its misuse has legal consequence. Our society has learned to live with those consequences-to a degree-and offers education, regulations and social norms as boundaries. Nevertheless, abuse and negative impact remain. As a corollary, it will likely prove a mistake to offer up marijuana as a completely benign alternative that should be seen as significantly different from alcohol. More studies are needed, as is more regulation of the cannabis industry, education (as opposed to opinion), and open-minds that can recognize that marijuana is a drug-and as such can have negative consequences that are often life altering and have significant societal implications.
I don't imbibe but the coupling of decriminalization with industry is the problem. In my state you can legally grow up to three plants in your back yard. Heaven forbid that the citizen be left to his own devices and get for free what can be exploited for cash and control by the state. Drugs aren't the problem. The numbered account cartel billionaire surveillance state drugs for cash industry is. Marijuana aside, drug addiction is the symptom not the disease. The six decade gutting of American industry, the looting of the American economy by criminal financiers and the destruction of American education is the disease. The grift knowingly/willingly destroyed everything it touched. You need only look through your windshield to see it.
Agreed, that was a huge mistake on the part of the federal government, first by designating drugs like LSD and marijuana as CI Scheduled drugs and barring, or nearly barring, high quality research to determine if there is any medical value or if they are seriously addictive. Once again an example where ideology, politics and prejudice rather than evidence and reason drive the making of law.
Agree. This is an important point. The drug is STILL schedule I and will be for as long as the prohibitionists have their way. The only way to find out the truth, messy as it can be, is to take it out of the hands of the feds and let our “laboratories of democracy” find the truth.
The USA might not have the studies, but all you have to do is look at Australia, the UK or the Scandinavian countries for them. These studies have been published in the Lancet, Addiction, Medical Journal of Australia, British Medical Journal and others. I might note that Australia, the UK and the Scandinavian countries all outlaw cannabis.
I imagine you also encounter your fair share of alcoholic patients? As a sober alcoholic myself I’ve heard a lot of tragic stories. If we as a society have accepted the consequences of legal alcohol then it should be trivial to accept the consequences of legal marijuana in comparison.
But there was that really good longitudinal study on the the nature of alcohol both chemically and culturally…what was it called? Oh, right, all of history.
Was that sarcasm? If so, great; if not then you've made a great point. Many religions bar the use of alcohol - but not hash, weed, peyote, etc. - because of it's terrible past.
And in a really weird case of cognitive dissonance, the gov will *allow* you to use C1 subs if they are for a religious purpose. Knew a couple of Native Amers from out west while in the service and they were allowed to use it (when participating in rituals).
Yeah, we have this weird thing in the U.S. that all you have to do is say "religion" and you can do pretty much anything and ignore whatever rules and laws you want. Maybe it's time to convert to Rastafarianism.
Yeah - I've got to agree and add to this. In my mid sized psychotherapy practice, we always some weed use and addiction over the years. Starting a few years ago it became an absolute torrent. So many people failing to launch, ruining relationships, neglecting their kids and their jobs. One young professional mother said to me, "I can't wait till I'm 60 and my kids are grown and I can just smoke weed all day. I dream of it." When I was doing some research on best practice for working with marijuana dependence, I could hardly find what I needed in the google search because the first dozen pages were for recovery centers. So somehow the recovery industry knew right away they were in for a goldmine, but not the government.
Borrowing your "reply" box Galen. SUBSTACK is indifferent to my requests to fix my "comments" box. Thank you.
Staffers in the Nixon White House openly admitted that they passed drug laws and implemented arrests as a means of criminalizing White people protesting the Vietnam War and Black people fighting for civil rights and social change. It was an age of mass arrests and assassinations that took lives and destroyed the future of millions. Today legalization remains a convenient "boogie man" issue to distract from political malfeasance and as a cover for the social/economic failure of the D.C. pay-to-play grift. It was a White House lie then that grew into the power politics grift as usual distortion of the DOJ today.
The CIA/FBI was neck deep in using marijuana/drug laws to build today's ever growing surveillance state (add "big tech") and assault American civil liberties. The no knock warrant, eavesdropping militarized kevlar vested swat team, the hold without bail, suspicious activity search and seizure laws provided the perfect excuse for a "pay to play" political bureaucracy to push the Constitution aside.
Note that despite the propaganda and crocodile tears concern, the CIA/FBI while using unsuspecting Americans as guinea pigs (MKULTRA/Manson was a participant) was flooding American cities with drugs and illegal weapons (remember Gary Webb). Accept the merger of organized crime with the billionaire controlled American intelligence community and the so called border crisis is a lot easier to understand. Cartel cash spends just like treasury money. Major banks in America and across the world were busted laundering drug dollars. They even built special teller windows to accommodate it. (Everybody walked.)
The drug war built the prison industrial complex and criminalized millions. Gang culture is prison culture. The Black fratricide now underway in major American cities is the direct product of the war on the Black community that began in the 1960's. There is huge $$$$$ in drugs and prisons and the money flows upward. For our concern in this conversation: The drug war built the apparatus and allowed the compromise of American political/cultural institutions just enough for the pathological narcissistic D.C.surveillance bureaucracy to, again, push the Constitution aside and in an act of criminal self-preservation, rationalize the criminalization and mass arrest of American citizens. It's already undergoing a trial run Europe. 3300 arrests for thought and speech crimes last year in England alone.
There are so few studies because the government wouldn't allow them. Let's do some real scientific studies on the benefits and harms of cannabis. This requires the federal government to admit that there may be some benefits and that it's not a Schedule 1 drug with no medical purpose.
I could add a few more points, but I wanted to add that the brains natural cannabinoids have a host of functions, one of them apparently is playing a role in the development of brain pathways and connections, particularly the pruning and myelination that occurs during adolescence and young adulthood. Heavy use of high potency cannabis is implicated in the disruption of these necessary and natural processes, and seems to be linked to cognitive impairments and even the psychosis we are witnessing in teens.
Just once, I’d like to hear a pro-marijuana argument that doesn’t mention some form of, “Well, alcohol is worse!” It reminds me of a kid who’s in trouble with his teacher, so he tries to pivot the conversation by saying that his classmate was even more badly-behaved.
Alcohol does have worse consequences, and it is legal. So it is hypocritical to use the consequences of marijuana use to argue for it to remain illegal, unless you also want to argue that alcohol should be illegal as well.
Not necessarily. It’s possible to think that alcohol has worse consequences, but that it’s been so ingrained culturally that trying to make it illegal, and enforce those laws, is a waste of time and resources - and to also think that marijuana should remain illegal, because it shouldn’t be allowed to reach the socially acceptable status of alcohol.
No, it's a fallacy of relative privation. Even if for the sake of argument we stipulate the claims about alcohol, using them to support marijuana doesn't work.
I think the most sensible thing that could be done with regard to stronger and stronger pot is to label legal marijuana with the amount of THC it contains. We require the same thing with alcohol (labeling by proof).
Something that wasn't mentioned in either of these articles is the adulteration of pot products with fentanyl. That seems like a much bigger danger to users than any amount or strength of marijuana.
In the handful of states I'm familiar with, THC content is labeled.
And the current issue of pot being laced with fentanyl is a good argument for legalization. It doesn't happen with regulated, or home grown, marijuana.
Where have you heard that from? From everything I've read in reputable news sources, the state regimes keep very tight control over the legal marijuana supply. Not to mention there would be no upside and a hell of a lot of downside for the legit suppliers to lace their product.
Lack of labeling dosage was one of the issues with Colorado’s initial rollout of legal weed.
Products sold in that state were* not required to be labeled. Most other states who followed in the years have done the same but included strict dosage labeling rules from the beginning.
This is already required and done in Massachusetts. In fact, legal recreational and medical marijuana labeling requirements here are far more stringent than with alcohol or tobacco. Every cannabinoid needs to be identified along with a package total and serving size potency tab. Lots of warning labels, child proof packaging, health risks, etc....
I just keep reading that "maybe don't make it illegal again, but we need to stop pretending like its COMPLETELY HARMLESS and at least treat it regulation-wise as we would other harmful, legal substances like cigarettes and alcohol." And I don't understand because, although I haven't been to the hacky-sack mecca that is Colorado, every weed-legal state I have been to has had tight physical security controls and ID checking at the dispensary, as well as far more informed/prominent labeling/packaging requirements than a convenience or liquor store....
It's been a while now but I believe Oregon requires this to be disclosed. Unfortunately, from personal experience, it just makes one seek out the biggest numbers when shopping.
This guy keeps going on about how smoking weed 12 hours a day for 5 years ruined his life, without any self realization that a normal person would intuit that is completely idiotic
Celia when you're getting stoned why not get stoned stoned stoned for the same price and no apparent side effects? I can assure you the proponents of cannabis can and will argue, as has happened here, against my shared personal experience, that "of course" "all things in moderation" like cannabis are harmless. However, this sentiment flies in the face of the argument they make in that it's totally harmless. The real question is how much is too much and at what dosage? There is zero rationality when it comes to the cannabis congregation. While I'm not a prohibitionist now I'm so thankful I left their church.
"While this trend predates legalization, it’s notable that the tipping point came after many Americans witnessed the effects of legalization firsthand. It’s hard to reconcile these figures with the prohibitionists’ dystopian portrait of a nation of newly zombified citizens."
I do not understand who she's talking to. I live in a "medical" marijuana -legal state, and I "experience the effects" of marijuana use every time I go to Walmart or go to the park. I think zombie is a pretty good descriptor.
I don't know if making the drug illegal again is the right thing (which I think is her argument here?), but it's muddled by touting the benignity of the drug (which I think is just plain wrong). Separate your arguments and I might be able to agree with you in part. I still think we should treat marijuana similar to the way we treat tobacco... gross and unhealthy, a habit to kick, not a cool, benign, recreational activity
Yes. I was highly (ahem) annoyed when I visited Colorado, a legal weed state. They are absolutely hysterical about cigarette smoke but weed smoke and the smell was everywhere I went, inside and outside.
Yeah it's rough out there. We went to Gulf Shores AL last summer and had to call the front office because we could smell weed through our balcony. (If it was only adults, we probably wouldn't have, but we had lots of kids with us.) Fortunately, the front desk took it very seriously and we didn't smell it again. Still, it's crazy how ubiquitous it is.
I live in rural Missouri where marijuana is highly prevalent. It has created a community of apathetic and absentminded youth. Not to mention the dependence that marijuana smoking creates - these poor folks are tied to it lest they vomit profusely or suffer in other ways.
I'm really not pro-or-anti-marijuana (although I think attempts at rolling back the clearly popular wave of legalization efforts are futile and, frankly, silly). I'm good for a weed gummy before bed maybe once or twice a month. But the claim that there is a "community" of people near you that are so hopelessly addicted to weed that if they aren't able to consume it, will start to vomit profusely, is just utter nonsense. The hysterics from the anti-weed crowd on these articles are like a Nancy Reagan War on Fun Fever Dream, I swear...
I am all for the scientific findings about weed. I have always thought, as long as you don't hurt anyone, it's more or less okay. A responsible adult has a hard day on the job and wants to smoke or chew a gummy to relax after the day's stresses, I say "ok." However, I grew up around Jeff Spiccoli-like stoners. Their lackadaisical approach to life and general laziness angered me. I see it on the rise. I am 57. Forty-odd years ago it was not that big a problem in my corner of the woods. Now I see it, I smell it, and I see the negative effects of it everywhere. I see a bored, stupid, brain-dead populace. Now, if you sincerely need it for pain, take it, but in general, I see legal weed as dubious.
Arguments for and against marijuana are irrelevant. If you choose to use drugs of any kind, then accept their consequences (if any). As long as I am not asked to offer financial support, or aid or any other form of assistance to people who have problems with drugs then I could care less how self-destructive anyone chooses to be.
You are being willfully ignorant if you think chronic weed use won’t result in higher overall health care costs. Just like chronic alcohol use also causes poor health, and all the ‘costs’ that this condition carries. My in law works as PA in a gastro clinic (for decades). He’s had front row seat to impact of weed use on these patients, and says it’s a problem nobody is talking about and it’s going to cost health care industry $ billions. Patients won’t listen that their vomiting is result of heavy weed use. The propaganda that weed is harmless/benign has been effective.
Absolutely. I too have the displeasure of occasionally working in endoscopy clinic - whenever I see a teenager come in for the umpteenth endoscopy for “vomiting”, I think of cannabinoid cyclical vomiting syndrome.
Its not willful ignorance, it is a matter of callous disregard for people who choose to destroy themselves. I hold the same opinions for all the transgender types who want to castrate themselves. Let them live with the consequences of their decisions. I'm not paying for it.
Cutting off your junk makes you impotent. That’s a 2 edge sword. Loss of any future tax paying citizens on one hand, on other, no need for government to provide services if that person was poor, cause again, no kids. Chronic weed use will have impact to tax system (as did 3-pack a day cigarette use) to support greater healthcare $ spending.
Like so many issues, increased weed use and all the negatives it entails is a symptom of societal collapse, not a cause. Building a society of empowered individuals with the freedom to pursue personal happiness and the spirituality needed to know how to do so is the only way. Im not necessarily against weed prohibition if only because until this century we had done so largely successfully. But I also don’t think suddenly outlawing weed at the federal level would really change anything. As far as weed being readily available, the cat is very much out of the bag.
The argument against Legalization wins by a knockout in the first round. The arguments by Ms. Mango - Ward are not convincing in the least. It’s a negative argument; alcohol is bad so we should legalize “pot” too . We should never have fallen for it. Legalization of Marijuana has been a disaster. Unfortunately there is no putting that cat back in the bag. The death spiral for America continues.
It's not the marijuana that's killing us. Or the alcohol. Or the obesity. Or traffic. It's the stupidity. These other things are decorations in our suicide party house
Why do you have to knock on LSD? Psychedelic therapy is an interesting point of research right now. Not that trendy micro dosing crap the soy boys do. No, no, research supports what they call “Heroic” doses of psilocybin and ketamine to treat depression, PTSD . etc.
Because I’m a grown up now I get Ketamine prescribed by a doctor a couple times a year now. Ketamine is the best choice, its also a surgical anesthetic. So the risk of “I can fly!” the splat! Goes down, the more you take the less mobile you are.
Before the conservatives start wagging their fingers at me… You want to get closer to God? Take Ketamine as a medication not as a drug of abuse and start praying. It play a significant role in converting me to Christianity. I say as a medication since I took psychedelics recreation as a teenager. No sign from God.
Then I did as an adult with the honest intention of bettering my life. Oh boy… Now I go to church and read the bible.
A few years ago, I was desperate enough to start using full-spectrum CBD oil (less than .3% THC) for my fibromyalgia pain at night. It helped.
But I discovered quickly that can't use it every night if I want it to work when I really need it. Tolerance builds up rapidly.
I've never wanted to smoke pot, but my experience with CBD would put me off trying it, because I now know that I would have to use more and more and more to get the same effect. No desire to go down such a road.
Didn't you read what I wrote? When I took CBD oil every night to help me sleep, it stopped working at that dose within a couple of months. Now I only take it rarely, when it's clear that the pain I'm in will affect my sleep.
I can attest to the strength of todays pot toked vaped gummies chocolates and brownies….I was offered a gummy by family members at a dinner party after cocktails and dinner. They were purchased from the corner “Grass Roots” Pot store and listed as 22% thc. After a short period I was so stoned I could barely stand up. Compared to the “stoners” at the party who were drinking, vaping and consuming gummy’s (age range 35-65), their tolerances were remarkable! They acted like they were on speed! They partied through the night! I on the other hand needed fresh air and guided home (a 1/4 mile walk) by one of the stoned kids. It took me 12 hrs to come off that uncomfortable high. Now granted I don’t partake in legalized high octane pot so I was out of my league.
Yes, the risks and harm of alcohol surface daily in practice. One the distinctions between alcohol and the loosening of laws regarding the use of cannabis is that alcohol has historic and cultural roots stretching back thousands of years, and is associated traditions and routines such dinners and parties and ballgames and is of course also associated with a billion dollar hospitality and food and beverage industry, which will fight tooth nail about even putting warning labels on a bottle of booze. Judging by recent research, which is examining the long term, more subtle effects of alcohol, such as the increased risk of breast cancer in women and the atrophy of brain structure, there are some who recommend that if you are not currently consuming alcohol, don't start. Humans are far more focused on immediate consequences, such as the bar fight or the car accident, than the long term consequences and frankly, denial is still a present and powerful defense against realities.
Katherine, either your weed sucks or you're not smoking or ingesting enough of it. Speaking from experience it ruined my life for about 5 years before I tapered my use enough to realize it was causing my severe anxiety. Reason should sponsor a bake off where the crew smokes weed at 15-20 minute intervals 5 straight hours every day for a year. Do it for science.
I have in no way argued anywhere here for prohibition. The fact that you use the term "responsibly" is a sign that perhaps we actually see common ground.
My personal story was shared to say there are adverse side effects of which most proponents refuse to acknowledge. How can something so harmless cause ill effects ever? You can't "overdose". It doesn't cause psychological harm. As someone stalking me in the comments likes to point out drinking five hours a day daily can cause liver damage and death but they refuse to acknowledge chronic cannabis use can cause adverse health effects even though "of course you can't smoke weed that frequently because it's not good for you" is their reply to my chronic use.
There is so much more to this discussion than "yay" or "nay".
I misunderstood where you were coming from with your anecdotal evidence. Thank you for the reply. I basically agree.
I will say that I understand why proponents don't often acknowledge the down sides. The more entrenched, and louder, opposition has been doing that for longer than I've been alive. Proponents main tact is accentuating the positive and minimizing the negative.
As your closing concludes, we end up with propaganda yet from both sides.
I think it's fascinating that I can come out within the discussion saying, "My name is Alan and I suffered from severe anxiety while addicted to cannabis" and have people jump down my throat saying I'm both wrong and at fault at the same time.
The stories my wife and friends and I could share of those years...
What happened to all the adults in the room. It started when the constant pressure of the "Make Weed Legal" leaders made a brilliant business move and said nobody is against a medicine that can help people. Lets do some dubious research and eventually with papers in hand snowed enough people to have it be called MEDICAL / Medicinal marijuana and crowed it is desperately needed to help people. So that opened the door exactly the way they wanted, just get that foot in the door. Yes just what America needed. America the most pill taking and drug taking group of people on earth. Fast forward the learning curve and eventually the real damage of smoking got to the people and look how smoking is viewed today. The health cost alone beside the cost to individuals, companies and families from the damage caused by smoking is staggering. So let us as the adults in the room say yes smoking is very bad, bad, bad. Lets spend billions trying to convince our children do not smoke. However, let's pretend that marijuana is medicine and so now smoking it is not bad. Excuse me but i believe we all have the same lungs. Look at a map and the MAJORITY of the world calls marijuana illegal and does not condone it's sale in cannabis shops. Most of Europe and the Scandinavian countries do not allow it but do allow some medical marijuana use. Could they possibly know something we don't???
Why when we see the horrid damage being done in our country already from the illicit use of drugs and the over use of prescribed drugs need to add another drug to our cabinet. Did we not learn our lesson from alcohol. You might say banning it did not work and I agree it did not stop alcoholism. But we did learn about the immense damage it has caused and continues to cause in families, individuals and our hospitals. So lets add another potential hazard, let also make it legal sounds logical to me !!!!
It takes billons of dollars and years of research to get some of the actual drugs we now have to treat our diseases and illness legal and approved . There is no such thing as this level of peer reviewed research data available for cannabis yet. The advocates of course say there is but look at some and you will immediately see conflict of interest. I again agree there is conflict of interest easily seen in the history behind the granting of FDA approval but there is still years of research being done. Maybe we are just giving in because the states look at the dollar signs. After all why not try to tap into the previous black market of drugs. Some actually advocate legalizing all drugs. They now understand you will never eliminate the black market, especially when you continue to make it legal. Could the adults find their way back into the room after they see the horrific effects that all drugs have caused, this is just another we do not need.
The pro-legalization crowd can argue their theoretical points but they require people to reject their real-life experience. I speak less of those who use routinely. It is hard to appreciate (or admit) the downside of one's own addictive habit. But, those who love, live with, work with, etc. the habitual user are well aware of the lives curtailed by marijuana, both in the immediate sense of impairment and the long-term 'lost years' to being routinely stoned.
As psychiatrist and addiction specialist who treats teens and adults alike, a couple of thoughts. First, the passage of 'medical' marijuana legislation was premature and irresponsible, as there were so few high quality double blinded, randomly controlled studies to support use for such an array of illness as Arnold-Chiari syndrome, chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, and PTSD. And blessing by the states in effect touted the 'benignity' and benefits of marijuana, giving many recreational users the false sense it was safe, or at least not hazardous. Second, there are so little longitudinal studies on the effects of marijuana, a drug delivered in combusted vapors and containing many of the same carcinogens as tobacco, that the long term risks are unknown and undetermined: it took decades of research to validate the cause effect between cigarettes and COPD and lung and heart disease. Third, cannabis may not be associated with such serious acute effects as deaths due to DUI or domestic violence, but I have my share of patients who have divorced their husbands for spending every waking moment smoking pot and playing video games in the basement and high school student who drop out of extracurricular activities as smoking weed, whether alone in their bedroom or with friends in the park, becomes their reason d'etre.
Just like the existence of legal cookies are not to blame for the nation’s obesity, weed is not to blame for one’s foolish lack of self control
There’s no issue of “lack of self control” when I it comes to marijuana. How many times do people smoke marijuana without becoming intoxicated? Essentially zero. That’s the point of using the drug. The problems that result from intoxication are difficult to exaggerate.
Great comment. I'll add some anecdotes/observations as a former pot-smoker and former drinker:
Go on reddit forums for AA or sobriety from alcohol, and you'll see lots of posts and comments from people with months, years, or decades of sobriety.
Go to a forum for marijuana addiction (r/leaves, for example) and you'll see post after post of smokers relapsing after four, five days, over and over again...
In person, I go to AA meetings as well as MA meetings. Much like online, IRL, the relapse rate for marijuana abuse is just much higher. I'd estimate that about 70% of our attendees in MA are chronic relapsers who have not found stability in their sobriety from marijuana. I'm ten years pot free, and aside from myself, our other community ringleader is 1.5 years pot free. After that, it's people stringing together a few months here and there...
I predict in the next ten years we are going to see a huge uptick in what I call MMD: Millennial Marijuana Divorce. We will also see an uptick in schizophrenia-esque diagnoses for chronic pot smokers.
That said, I believe the cat is out of the bag in terms of legalization/popularization/normalization of marijuana. I have no opinion on whether or not this is a good thing, all I can say confidently is that we have underestimated the negative externalities.
We would have seen all that doom from you drug warriors already, it's been a decade or two of legal use and substantial periods going back to the 70s of illegal use, despite harsh laws where every traffic stop could be a search and seizure operation.
But the sky didn't fall, 20 years out, the jury's in, and the prohibitionists like you called wolf many too many times to be credible. People ultimately discover the truth despite the propaganda that supported the old laws.
Also have some experience about being forced into 12 step probation programs by the legal system during prohibition for misdemeanor pot possession charge, now expunged.
Just let me say that alcohol, crack cocaine and heroin abusers are in a whole different category of "addicts", as similar as a lightning bug to lightening. At NA meetings, I had to sit though repetitive (overly?) dramatic confessions of stealing grandma's fur coat to buy smack, or when I came up here, there was a hit man on my trail...because addiction. The only thing I could compare it to at the time was Soviet dissidents being sent to mental hospitals as punishment for deviance.
The public has made it's decision on legalization. That train has left the station.
That decision was made based on the lie that marijuana is harmless. It isn't. It is addictive and often leads to the use of other drugs. THC can cause psychotic episodes. In a certain number of users, weed use precipitates schizophrenia. It impairs driving and other activities requiring concentration. It also affects the body physically, leading to a greater chance of stroke or heart attack. I'm not for re-criminalization but, like other products, it should come with appropriate warnings - not with the false claim that it's benign.
Driving while impaired on ANYTHING--alcohol, marijuana and I'd even include cell phones--should be punished harshly. I'm sure heavy use also negatively affects the body, as does heavy use of alcohol, prescription drugs, sugar, salt, etc. All things in moderation and in their appropriate place and time.
Would I use weed while driving, or working, or before giving a presentation to a large audience. No. Would I use it when I'm on vacation sitting on a porch with some music playing and looking at the sunset. Probably.
Doesn't change what I said. It is not going to be reversed. Personally, I treat it like opioids. I don't want to take too much of those either.
The difference is that no one claims opioids are harmless and you can't legally get them without a prescription.
Who claims marijuana is "harmless"? I've heard "less harmful" than alcohol. But I've not heard a single serious person claim it was "harmless".
Opiates are a physical addiction, as well as benzodiazepines, and alcohol. Which is why you can have an acute medical stabilization ( detox ) from those drugs.
MJ is not a physical addiction.
Opiates will kill you if you take too much.
MJ will not.
No comparison
I know. It was an example.
To be clear (if that's possible) the 60's conversation was about the exploration of expanded consciousness, reconnection with the earth and universe, and the abandonment of the sterile capitalist plasticity. Then came November 22, 1963, the ascent of the MIC/CIA and all that has followed. Criminal finance then and criminal finance now wants two things. Access to uneducated throw away labor and access to all natural resources for personal exploitation and profit without consequence. Drug and alcohol addiction kills but again drug and alcohol addiction are symptoms of a failed social/economic environment. Christ on the Cross, Galileo under house arrest and Julian Assange in Belmarsh prison today speak to one end. The war isn't on drugs, the war is and has always been on consciousness. Human damage and a wounded American psyche resulting from a tyranny attempting the mass imposition of a polarizing hyperrealistic psyop (LIE) is the problem. The healing third is readily available. It's called the American Constitution.. It isn't capitalist or communist, "woke", "left" or "right". It is an entirely human oriented document outlining the framework for a healthy solutions based truth/fact based human reality.
Looking at 40 years in September. DON'T QUIT!! (You might like Edward F. Edinger's commentary on C.G. Jung's AION.
While I support you here I would like to add it's because of prohibition by the DEA that we don't have the studies. This was an omission in the opposing essay that really angers me.
As another addiction physician let me add that I have given professional educational lectures on this very topic many times to both patients in milieu community in a well-known residential treatment center, as well as for professional education credit to therapists and physicians. You (Alan) respectfully mention an old argument that often comes up that because cannabis is a Schedule 1 drug it is not available to researchers outside of a very limited, ergo, we “don’t have the studies”. True, true and unrelated: Big Cannabis has no desire to have such studies performed or to be brought into the mainstream of pharmaceuticals. This would potentially (read: likely) offer them up to increased scrutiny and oversight as well as pressure to bring cannabis-derived medications to market in the same manner as other pharmaceutical companies. To wit, out of some 5,000 chemical formulations (a.k.a potential medicines) only about 5 will make it to final trials and only about one will go to market. It takes about $1 billion and a decade to do so. Why would marijuana growers choose such a path when they are selling billions of dollars of product NOW and enjoying the platform of the relatively unregulated dispensary? It is essentially rhetorical because from a business perspective, they simply have no impulse to do so. It is clear that there is no significant push to reverse this trend, ergo such arguments remain in play, and conveniently so for the marijuana industry.
I think the issue of the failure of drug wars and legalization vs non-legalization are legitimate debates and respectfully offered here. What is not so much a debate is trying to normalize the usage of marijuana products as completely benign and the related attempts to minimize marijuana’s negative impacts on a great many individuals. This may be inconvenient to advocates, but marijuana is widely accepted as addictive, it has very negative effects upon many persons, especially adolescents (causing damage to natural pruning and creation of healthy neural pathways). Further, it is now accepted as causative of psychosis in adolescents (read: under age 25) as opposed to merely unmasking psychosis (and not that that matters to a family struggling with a psychotic adolescent…). I could go on, but the arguments scientifically are solid and grow each year, and this leaves the pro-pot camp left to trying hard to cherry-pick data out of a growing body of evidence.
We indeed accept legal alcohol, but it is highly regulated and its misuse has legal consequence. Our society has learned to live with those consequences-to a degree-and offers education, regulations and social norms as boundaries. Nevertheless, abuse and negative impact remain. As a corollary, it will likely prove a mistake to offer up marijuana as a completely benign alternative that should be seen as significantly different from alcohol. More studies are needed, as is more regulation of the cannabis industry, education (as opposed to opinion), and open-minds that can recognize that marijuana is a drug-and as such can have negative consequences that are often life altering and have significant societal implications.
I don't imbibe but the coupling of decriminalization with industry is the problem. In my state you can legally grow up to three plants in your back yard. Heaven forbid that the citizen be left to his own devices and get for free what can be exploited for cash and control by the state. Drugs aren't the problem. The numbered account cartel billionaire surveillance state drugs for cash industry is. Marijuana aside, drug addiction is the symptom not the disease. The six decade gutting of American industry, the looting of the American economy by criminal financiers and the destruction of American education is the disease. The grift knowingly/willingly destroyed everything it touched. You need only look through your windshield to see it.
Agreed, that was a huge mistake on the part of the federal government, first by designating drugs like LSD and marijuana as CI Scheduled drugs and barring, or nearly barring, high quality research to determine if there is any medical value or if they are seriously addictive. Once again an example where ideology, politics and prejudice rather than evidence and reason drive the making of law.
Agree. This is an important point. The drug is STILL schedule I and will be for as long as the prohibitionists have their way. The only way to find out the truth, messy as it can be, is to take it out of the hands of the feds and let our “laboratories of democracy” find the truth.
The USA might not have the studies, but all you have to do is look at Australia, the UK or the Scandinavian countries for them. These studies have been published in the Lancet, Addiction, Medical Journal of Australia, British Medical Journal and others. I might note that Australia, the UK and the Scandinavian countries all outlaw cannabis.
I imagine you also encounter your fair share of alcoholic patients? As a sober alcoholic myself I’ve heard a lot of tragic stories. If we as a society have accepted the consequences of legal alcohol then it should be trivial to accept the consequences of legal marijuana in comparison.
But there was that really good longitudinal study on the the nature of alcohol both chemically and culturally…what was it called? Oh, right, all of history.
Was that sarcasm? If so, great; if not then you've made a great point. Many religions bar the use of alcohol - but not hash, weed, peyote, etc. - because of it's terrible past.
And in a really weird case of cognitive dissonance, the gov will *allow* you to use C1 subs if they are for a religious purpose. Knew a couple of Native Amers from out west while in the service and they were allowed to use it (when participating in rituals).
That was in the 70s/80s.
Yeah, we have this weird thing in the U.S. that all you have to do is say "religion" and you can do pretty much anything and ignore whatever rules and laws you want. Maybe it's time to convert to Rastafarianism.
Yeah - I've got to agree and add to this. In my mid sized psychotherapy practice, we always some weed use and addiction over the years. Starting a few years ago it became an absolute torrent. So many people failing to launch, ruining relationships, neglecting their kids and their jobs. One young professional mother said to me, "I can't wait till I'm 60 and my kids are grown and I can just smoke weed all day. I dream of it." When I was doing some research on best practice for working with marijuana dependence, I could hardly find what I needed in the google search because the first dozen pages were for recovery centers. So somehow the recovery industry knew right away they were in for a goldmine, but not the government.
Borrowing your "reply" box Galen. SUBSTACK is indifferent to my requests to fix my "comments" box. Thank you.
Staffers in the Nixon White House openly admitted that they passed drug laws and implemented arrests as a means of criminalizing White people protesting the Vietnam War and Black people fighting for civil rights and social change. It was an age of mass arrests and assassinations that took lives and destroyed the future of millions. Today legalization remains a convenient "boogie man" issue to distract from political malfeasance and as a cover for the social/economic failure of the D.C. pay-to-play grift. It was a White House lie then that grew into the power politics grift as usual distortion of the DOJ today.
The CIA/FBI was neck deep in using marijuana/drug laws to build today's ever growing surveillance state (add "big tech") and assault American civil liberties. The no knock warrant, eavesdropping militarized kevlar vested swat team, the hold without bail, suspicious activity search and seizure laws provided the perfect excuse for a "pay to play" political bureaucracy to push the Constitution aside.
Note that despite the propaganda and crocodile tears concern, the CIA/FBI while using unsuspecting Americans as guinea pigs (MKULTRA/Manson was a participant) was flooding American cities with drugs and illegal weapons (remember Gary Webb). Accept the merger of organized crime with the billionaire controlled American intelligence community and the so called border crisis is a lot easier to understand. Cartel cash spends just like treasury money. Major banks in America and across the world were busted laundering drug dollars. They even built special teller windows to accommodate it. (Everybody walked.)
The drug war built the prison industrial complex and criminalized millions. Gang culture is prison culture. The Black fratricide now underway in major American cities is the direct product of the war on the Black community that began in the 1960's. There is huge $$$$$ in drugs and prisons and the money flows upward. For our concern in this conversation: The drug war built the apparatus and allowed the compromise of American political/cultural institutions just enough for the pathological narcissistic D.C.surveillance bureaucracy to, again, push the Constitution aside and in an act of criminal self-preservation, rationalize the criminalization and mass arrest of American citizens. It's already undergoing a trial run Europe. 3300 arrests for thought and speech crimes last year in England alone.
Read your Hannah Arendt lately?
Nailed it.
There are so few studies because the government wouldn't allow them. Let's do some real scientific studies on the benefits and harms of cannabis. This requires the federal government to admit that there may be some benefits and that it's not a Schedule 1 drug with no medical purpose.
We need to hear sooooo much more of this viewpoint. Really. A lot.
I could add a few more points, but I wanted to add that the brains natural cannabinoids have a host of functions, one of them apparently is playing a role in the development of brain pathways and connections, particularly the pruning and myelination that occurs during adolescence and young adulthood. Heavy use of high potency cannabis is implicated in the disruption of these necessary and natural processes, and seems to be linked to cognitive impairments and even the psychosis we are witnessing in teens.
This was unfortunately our personal experience.
What was once thought to be rare is occuring with increasing frequency.
Thank you for highlighting this very serious problem amongst an already at risk vulnerable population.
Just once, I’d like to hear a pro-marijuana argument that doesn’t mention some form of, “Well, alcohol is worse!” It reminds me of a kid who’s in trouble with his teacher, so he tries to pivot the conversation by saying that his classmate was even more badly-behaved.
Alcohol does have worse consequences, and it is legal. So it is hypocritical to use the consequences of marijuana use to argue for it to remain illegal, unless you also want to argue that alcohol should be illegal as well.
Not necessarily. It’s possible to think that alcohol has worse consequences, but that it’s been so ingrained culturally that trying to make it illegal, and enforce those laws, is a waste of time and resources - and to also think that marijuana should remain illegal, because it shouldn’t be allowed to reach the socially acceptable status of alcohol.
No, it's a fallacy of relative privation. Even if for the sake of argument we stipulate the claims about alcohol, using them to support marijuana doesn't work.
I think the most sensible thing that could be done with regard to stronger and stronger pot is to label legal marijuana with the amount of THC it contains. We require the same thing with alcohol (labeling by proof).
Something that wasn't mentioned in either of these articles is the adulteration of pot products with fentanyl. That seems like a much bigger danger to users than any amount or strength of marijuana.
In the handful of states I'm familiar with, THC content is labeled.
And the current issue of pot being laced with fentanyl is a good argument for legalization. It doesn't happen with regulated, or home grown, marijuana.
It's only a good argument for legalization if the dispensary can be sued if someone dies from fentanyl-laced pot purchased at a dispensary.
From what I've heard, much of the "legal" pot sold with the government's stamp of approval actually comes from the cartels.
Where have you heard that from? From everything I've read in reputable news sources, the state regimes keep very tight control over the legal marijuana supply. Not to mention there would be no upside and a hell of a lot of downside for the legit suppliers to lace their product.
It is labeled.
Lack of labeling dosage was one of the issues with Colorado’s initial rollout of legal weed.
Products sold in that state were* not required to be labeled. Most other states who followed in the years have done the same but included strict dosage labeling rules from the beginning.
This is already required and done in Massachusetts. In fact, legal recreational and medical marijuana labeling requirements here are far more stringent than with alcohol or tobacco. Every cannabinoid needs to be identified along with a package total and serving size potency tab. Lots of warning labels, child proof packaging, health risks, etc....
I just keep reading that "maybe don't make it illegal again, but we need to stop pretending like its COMPLETELY HARMLESS and at least treat it regulation-wise as we would other harmful, legal substances like cigarettes and alcohol." And I don't understand because, although I haven't been to the hacky-sack mecca that is Colorado, every weed-legal state I have been to has had tight physical security controls and ID checking at the dispensary, as well as far more informed/prominent labeling/packaging requirements than a convenience or liquor store....
It's been a while now but I believe Oregon requires this to be disclosed. Unfortunately, from personal experience, it just makes one seek out the biggest numbers when shopping.
That doesn't seem rational. Most people prefer to relax with a beer instead of guzzle Everclear.
This guy keeps going on about how smoking weed 12 hours a day for 5 years ruined his life, without any self realization that a normal person would intuit that is completely idiotic
Maybe my exposure to Portland's pro-cannabis propaganda and culture was a little less subtle than yours.
Celia when you're getting stoned why not get stoned stoned stoned for the same price and no apparent side effects? I can assure you the proponents of cannabis can and will argue, as has happened here, against my shared personal experience, that "of course" "all things in moderation" like cannabis are harmless. However, this sentiment flies in the face of the argument they make in that it's totally harmless. The real question is how much is too much and at what dosage? There is zero rationality when it comes to the cannabis congregation. While I'm not a prohibitionist now I'm so thankful I left their church.
So, my red Solo cup isn't swanky enough for the la-di-da beer crowd.
In Canada there are labels with content and percentages of each component.
I’d that not true in the US?
Same here in the few states I've seen it.
"While this trend predates legalization, it’s notable that the tipping point came after many Americans witnessed the effects of legalization firsthand. It’s hard to reconcile these figures with the prohibitionists’ dystopian portrait of a nation of newly zombified citizens."
I do not understand who she's talking to. I live in a "medical" marijuana -legal state, and I "experience the effects" of marijuana use every time I go to Walmart or go to the park. I think zombie is a pretty good descriptor.
I don't know if making the drug illegal again is the right thing (which I think is her argument here?), but it's muddled by touting the benignity of the drug (which I think is just plain wrong). Separate your arguments and I might be able to agree with you in part. I still think we should treat marijuana similar to the way we treat tobacco... gross and unhealthy, a habit to kick, not a cool, benign, recreational activity
Yes. I was highly (ahem) annoyed when I visited Colorado, a legal weed state. They are absolutely hysterical about cigarette smoke but weed smoke and the smell was everywhere I went, inside and outside.
Yeah it's rough out there. We went to Gulf Shores AL last summer and had to call the front office because we could smell weed through our balcony. (If it was only adults, we probably wouldn't have, but we had lots of kids with us.) Fortunately, the front desk took it very seriously and we didn't smell it again. Still, it's crazy how ubiquitous it is.
I live in rural Missouri where marijuana is highly prevalent. It has created a community of apathetic and absentminded youth. Not to mention the dependence that marijuana smoking creates - these poor folks are tied to it lest they vomit profusely or suffer in other ways.
I'm really not pro-or-anti-marijuana (although I think attempts at rolling back the clearly popular wave of legalization efforts are futile and, frankly, silly). I'm good for a weed gummy before bed maybe once or twice a month. But the claim that there is a "community" of people near you that are so hopelessly addicted to weed that if they aren't able to consume it, will start to vomit profusely, is just utter nonsense. The hysterics from the anti-weed crowd on these articles are like a Nancy Reagan War on Fun Fever Dream, I swear...
I am all for the scientific findings about weed. I have always thought, as long as you don't hurt anyone, it's more or less okay. A responsible adult has a hard day on the job and wants to smoke or chew a gummy to relax after the day's stresses, I say "ok." However, I grew up around Jeff Spiccoli-like stoners. Their lackadaisical approach to life and general laziness angered me. I see it on the rise. I am 57. Forty-odd years ago it was not that big a problem in my corner of the woods. Now I see it, I smell it, and I see the negative effects of it everywhere. I see a bored, stupid, brain-dead populace. Now, if you sincerely need it for pain, take it, but in general, I see legal weed as dubious.
Arguments for and against marijuana are irrelevant. If you choose to use drugs of any kind, then accept their consequences (if any). As long as I am not asked to offer financial support, or aid or any other form of assistance to people who have problems with drugs then I could care less how self-destructive anyone chooses to be.
You are being willfully ignorant if you think chronic weed use won’t result in higher overall health care costs. Just like chronic alcohol use also causes poor health, and all the ‘costs’ that this condition carries. My in law works as PA in a gastro clinic (for decades). He’s had front row seat to impact of weed use on these patients, and says it’s a problem nobody is talking about and it’s going to cost health care industry $ billions. Patients won’t listen that their vomiting is result of heavy weed use. The propaganda that weed is harmless/benign has been effective.
Absolutely. I too have the displeasure of occasionally working in endoscopy clinic - whenever I see a teenager come in for the umpteenth endoscopy for “vomiting”, I think of cannabinoid cyclical vomiting syndrome.
Its not willful ignorance, it is a matter of callous disregard for people who choose to destroy themselves. I hold the same opinions for all the transgender types who want to castrate themselves. Let them live with the consequences of their decisions. I'm not paying for it.
Cutting off your junk makes you impotent. That’s a 2 edge sword. Loss of any future tax paying citizens on one hand, on other, no need for government to provide services if that person was poor, cause again, no kids. Chronic weed use will have impact to tax system (as did 3-pack a day cigarette use) to support greater healthcare $ spending.
I own a home and guns. I'll be fine.
And if one of them runs into you with their car?
No one is advocating driving while impaired.
Jim Howes, in the comment above you, implicitly is.
At least the pot smoker will be driving 10 mph under the speed limit—the drunk would be doing 30 over and probably kill you.
Like so many issues, increased weed use and all the negatives it entails is a symptom of societal collapse, not a cause. Building a society of empowered individuals with the freedom to pursue personal happiness and the spirituality needed to know how to do so is the only way. Im not necessarily against weed prohibition if only because until this century we had done so largely successfully. But I also don’t think suddenly outlawing weed at the federal level would really change anything. As far as weed being readily available, the cat is very much out of the bag.
The argument against Legalization wins by a knockout in the first round. The arguments by Ms. Mango - Ward are not convincing in the least. It’s a negative argument; alcohol is bad so we should legalize “pot” too . We should never have fallen for it. Legalization of Marijuana has been a disaster. Unfortunately there is no putting that cat back in the bag. The death spiral for America continues.
It's not the marijuana that's killing us. Or the alcohol. Or the obesity. Or traffic. It's the stupidity. These other things are decorations in our suicide party house
Dearh spiral? Why am I not reading about all those overdose deaths from weed?
Why do you have to knock on LSD? Psychedelic therapy is an interesting point of research right now. Not that trendy micro dosing crap the soy boys do. No, no, research supports what they call “Heroic” doses of psilocybin and ketamine to treat depression, PTSD . etc.
Because I’m a grown up now I get Ketamine prescribed by a doctor a couple times a year now. Ketamine is the best choice, its also a surgical anesthetic. So the risk of “I can fly!” the splat! Goes down, the more you take the less mobile you are.
Before the conservatives start wagging their fingers at me… You want to get closer to God? Take Ketamine as a medication not as a drug of abuse and start praying. It play a significant role in converting me to Christianity. I say as a medication since I took psychedelics recreation as a teenager. No sign from God.
Then I did as an adult with the honest intention of bettering my life. Oh boy… Now I go to church and read the bible.
This comment was entirely off topic.
A few years ago, I was desperate enough to start using full-spectrum CBD oil (less than .3% THC) for my fibromyalgia pain at night. It helped.
But I discovered quickly that can't use it every night if I want it to work when I really need it. Tolerance builds up rapidly.
I've never wanted to smoke pot, but my experience with CBD would put me off trying it, because I now know that I would have to use more and more and more to get the same effect. No desire to go down such a road.
You would not have to use more and more. I use it for back pain. My usage has not gone up in ten years. I am a very light user though.
Didn't you read what I wrote? When I took CBD oil every night to help me sleep, it stopped working at that dose within a couple of months. Now I only take it rarely, when it's clear that the pain I'm in will affect my sleep.
I can attest to the strength of todays pot toked vaped gummies chocolates and brownies….I was offered a gummy by family members at a dinner party after cocktails and dinner. They were purchased from the corner “Grass Roots” Pot store and listed as 22% thc. After a short period I was so stoned I could barely stand up. Compared to the “stoners” at the party who were drinking, vaping and consuming gummy’s (age range 35-65), their tolerances were remarkable! They acted like they were on speed! They partied through the night! I on the other hand needed fresh air and guided home (a 1/4 mile walk) by one of the stoned kids. It took me 12 hrs to come off that uncomfortable high. Now granted I don’t partake in legalized high octane pot so I was out of my league.
Me personally will stick to Martinis.
Yes, the risks and harm of alcohol surface daily in practice. One the distinctions between alcohol and the loosening of laws regarding the use of cannabis is that alcohol has historic and cultural roots stretching back thousands of years, and is associated traditions and routines such dinners and parties and ballgames and is of course also associated with a billion dollar hospitality and food and beverage industry, which will fight tooth nail about even putting warning labels on a bottle of booze. Judging by recent research, which is examining the long term, more subtle effects of alcohol, such as the increased risk of breast cancer in women and the atrophy of brain structure, there are some who recommend that if you are not currently consuming alcohol, don't start. Humans are far more focused on immediate consequences, such as the bar fight or the car accident, than the long term consequences and frankly, denial is still a present and powerful defense against realities.
Katherine, either your weed sucks or you're not smoking or ingesting enough of it. Speaking from experience it ruined my life for about 5 years before I tapered my use enough to realize it was causing my severe anxiety. Reason should sponsor a bake off where the crew smokes weed at 15-20 minute intervals 5 straight hours every day for a year. Do it for science.
So, because you were unable to use it responsibly, it should be illegal?
I have in no way argued anywhere here for prohibition. The fact that you use the term "responsibly" is a sign that perhaps we actually see common ground.
My personal story was shared to say there are adverse side effects of which most proponents refuse to acknowledge. How can something so harmless cause ill effects ever? You can't "overdose". It doesn't cause psychological harm. As someone stalking me in the comments likes to point out drinking five hours a day daily can cause liver damage and death but they refuse to acknowledge chronic cannabis use can cause adverse health effects even though "of course you can't smoke weed that frequently because it's not good for you" is their reply to my chronic use.
There is so much more to this discussion than "yay" or "nay".
I misunderstood where you were coming from with your anecdotal evidence. Thank you for the reply. I basically agree.
I will say that I understand why proponents don't often acknowledge the down sides. The more entrenched, and louder, opposition has been doing that for longer than I've been alive. Proponents main tact is accentuating the positive and minimizing the negative.
As your closing concludes, we end up with propaganda yet from both sides.
I think it's fascinating that I can come out within the discussion saying, "My name is Alan and I suffered from severe anxiety while addicted to cannabis" and have people jump down my throat saying I'm both wrong and at fault at the same time.
The stories my wife and friends and I could share of those years...
Have a great day!
Agreed. Sorry for adding to your frustration.
You have a great day, too.
I would never do that. It's stupid.
What happened to all the adults in the room. It started when the constant pressure of the "Make Weed Legal" leaders made a brilliant business move and said nobody is against a medicine that can help people. Lets do some dubious research and eventually with papers in hand snowed enough people to have it be called MEDICAL / Medicinal marijuana and crowed it is desperately needed to help people. So that opened the door exactly the way they wanted, just get that foot in the door. Yes just what America needed. America the most pill taking and drug taking group of people on earth. Fast forward the learning curve and eventually the real damage of smoking got to the people and look how smoking is viewed today. The health cost alone beside the cost to individuals, companies and families from the damage caused by smoking is staggering. So let us as the adults in the room say yes smoking is very bad, bad, bad. Lets spend billions trying to convince our children do not smoke. However, let's pretend that marijuana is medicine and so now smoking it is not bad. Excuse me but i believe we all have the same lungs. Look at a map and the MAJORITY of the world calls marijuana illegal and does not condone it's sale in cannabis shops. Most of Europe and the Scandinavian countries do not allow it but do allow some medical marijuana use. Could they possibly know something we don't???
Why when we see the horrid damage being done in our country already from the illicit use of drugs and the over use of prescribed drugs need to add another drug to our cabinet. Did we not learn our lesson from alcohol. You might say banning it did not work and I agree it did not stop alcoholism. But we did learn about the immense damage it has caused and continues to cause in families, individuals and our hospitals. So lets add another potential hazard, let also make it legal sounds logical to me !!!!
It takes billons of dollars and years of research to get some of the actual drugs we now have to treat our diseases and illness legal and approved . There is no such thing as this level of peer reviewed research data available for cannabis yet. The advocates of course say there is but look at some and you will immediately see conflict of interest. I again agree there is conflict of interest easily seen in the history behind the granting of FDA approval but there is still years of research being done. Maybe we are just giving in because the states look at the dollar signs. After all why not try to tap into the previous black market of drugs. Some actually advocate legalizing all drugs. They now understand you will never eliminate the black market, especially when you continue to make it legal. Could the adults find their way back into the room after they see the horrific effects that all drugs have caused, this is just another we do not need.
The pro-legalization crowd can argue their theoretical points but they require people to reject their real-life experience. I speak less of those who use routinely. It is hard to appreciate (or admit) the downside of one's own addictive habit. But, those who love, live with, work with, etc. the habitual user are well aware of the lives curtailed by marijuana, both in the immediate sense of impairment and the long-term 'lost years' to being routinely stoned.